From tuhs at tuhs.org Mon Dec 8 15:03:00 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey via TUHS) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 15:03:00 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Test of TUHS list Message-ID: All, it's been quiet. I suspect that the list broke somehow. This is a test to see what happens when I send in an e-mail. Cheers, Warren From tuhs at tuhs.org Mon Dec 8 15:13:01 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (George Michaelson via TUHS) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 15:13:01 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Test of TUHS list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You sent it while all the american residents are asleep. Lets sneak into the computer history museum and steal all the good bits. -G On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 3:11 PM Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote: > All, it's been quiet. I suspect that the list broke somehow. > This is a test to see what happens when I send in an e-mail. > > Cheers, Warren > From tuhs at tuhs.org Mon Dec 8 15:18:01 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Jason Bowen via TUHS) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2025 23:18:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: [TUHS] Test of TUHS list In-Reply-To: <424d9522-454b-4e5a-be89-40c8a4b2a3e5@infinitecactus.com> References: <424d9522-454b-4e5a-be89-40c8a4b2a3e5@infinitecactus.com> Message-ID: Dec 7, 2025 23:15:35 Jason Bowen : > Dec 7, 2025 23:13:33 George Michaelson via TUHS : > >> You sent it while all the american residents are asleep. >> >> Lets sneak into the computer history museum and steal all the good bits. >> >> -G >> >> On Mon, Dec 8, 2025 at 3:11 PM Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote: >> >>> All, it's been quiet. I suspect that the list broke somehow. >>> This is a test to see what happens when I send in an e-mail. >>> >>> Cheers, Warren >>> (left off the list) I would guess a decent number of us are still awake :) Which bit is best? From tuhs at tuhs.org Sun Dec 7 06:16:24 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (ron minnich via TUHS) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2025 12:16:24 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] V4 in tv news Message-ID: https://youtu.be/IR-f07LN0-Y?si=vU3P5MLwIsMC84jV From tuhs at tuhs.org Mon Dec 8 15:21:10 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey via TUHS) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 15:21:10 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Test of TUHS list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 08, 2025 at 03:03:00PM +1000, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote: > All, it's been quiet. I suspect that the list broke somehow. > This is a test to see what happens when I send in an e-mail. Looks like the mailman3 LMTP service failed to restart when I rebooted the server last week. It's running again now! Cheers & thanks for all the replies :-) Warren From tuhs at tuhs.org Mon Dec 8 15:30:25 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Thalia Archibald via TUHS) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 05:30:25 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] V4 in tv news In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ron, I’m a PhD student at the University of Utah and have been researching the history of our V4 tape ever since the news broke. Incidentally, I made an extensive list of 36 news stories on the tape just today[0]. That same repo has all the sources I’ve been collecting, except for some I don’t have scans for yet. I found that it was delivered the Martin Newell[1], famously known for the Utah Teapot model, and a letter from Ken to Martin[2] was later found that places our delivery around June 1974. I’m still looking for our license agreement. If any of you know of good early UNIX sources, particularly around 1973–1974, please let me know! Thalia [0]: https://github.com/thaliaarchi/unix-history/blob/main/users/utah/v4.md#News [1]: https://archive.org/details/unix_news_july-30-1975/page/n9/mode/1up [2]: https://github.com/thaliaarchi/unix-history/blob/8f887ce324bc7dc7fc6de5eca09d4d028fe8f554/users/utah/1974-05-31_ken_letter.jpg > On Dec 6, 2025, at 13:16, ron minnich via TUHS wrote: > > https://youtu.be/IR-f07LN0-Y?si=vU3P5MLwIsMC84jV From tuhs at tuhs.org Mon Dec 8 15:45:07 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Thalia Archibald via TUHS) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2025 05:45:07 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Test of TUHS list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C1E0FFF-9955-4151-BFEE-90A4EA5D18A2@archibald.dev> On Dec 7, 2025, at 22:21, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote: > Looks like the mailman3 LMTP service failed to restart when > I rebooted the server last week. It's running again now! It looks like Ron’s recent message was stuck unsent for a day. It was sent 2025-12-06 20:16:24 UTC, according to its Date header, but I received it 2025-12-08 05:20:03 UTC. Thalia From tuhs at tuhs.org Tue Dec 9 06:08:04 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey via TUHS) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 06:08:04 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Unix Magic poster annotation project Message-ID: Hi all, I just found this e-mail in my inbox. It's really cute :-) Cheers, Warren ----- Forwarded message from David Rio Deiros ----- Hi Warren, I've been working on a project to document all the hidden references in Gary Overacre's Unix Magic poster. It's a simple interactive site where you can click on parts of the poster and read what each reference means. code: https://github.com/drio/unixmagic static site: https://unixmagic.net We've got about 40 annotations so far. Thought the TUHS community might enjoy it and maybe you have some insights about some of the references. Anyway, thank you for reading and have a wonderful day! -drd ----- End forwarded message ----- From tuhs at tuhs.org Tue Dec 9 12:41:41 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Douglas McIlroy via TUHS) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2025 21:41:41 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Unix Magic poster annotation project Message-ID: David Rio Deiros has conjured up a fun game. Regardless of what #39 signifies, the object isn't a skull. Skulls don't have ears. I doubt that it symbolizes /dev/null, for it is the source of a steady flow INTO null. On close examination, the face is cat-like, but there's already a cat elsewhere. In any event, the flowing substance must represent data. The wizard is surrounded with jars of spices that adjust the flavor of the data that is being vigorously processed in the shell. Some data comes (typed in?) from sources in the fingers of both hands, and some comes from the file system (#38). The man (#2) cuts hay with a scythe. As a complement, the unlabeled pot next to the tar mortar (#12) may hold paste. Was Gary Overacre clairvoyant? What besides SE Linux could be signified by the hook at the end of the long-handled utensil that rests in the seething cauldron? Whose initials are hidden in the ribbon's twist (#5)? It looks like another DMR may follow the second KT, It's harder to guess who comes after BWK--possibly R(H)M. Doug From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Dec 10 01:16:02 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (=?utf-8?q?Cameron_M=C3=AD=C4=8Be=C3=A1l_Tyre_via_TUHS?=) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2025 15:16:02 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Tahoe Message-ID: Hello folks, Illness and work, both at the same time, prevented me from posting this a couple of months ago. I noted, when Apple released macOS 26 three months ago that it was called macOS Tahoe and I remembered that there was a processor specific release of 4.3 BSD back in 1988 that was officially referred to as "4.3BSD tahoe". I mention this only because, statistically, the chances of two Unix releases being given the same name must be slim, granted they were for different reasons, one referring to the platform it was to run on and the other because I guess Apple thought it was a nice name? I guess it could also be argued they didn't have the same name as one was "tahoe" and the other is "Tahoe" or that they did but that one being capitalized and one not is how the statistics were defeated. Have a safe rest of your week, everyone! Cameron From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Dec 10 01:49:21 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Clem Cole via TUHS) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 10:49:21 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Tahoe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: below On Tue, Dec 9, 2025 at 10:16 AM Cameron Míċeál Tyre via TUHS wrote: > Hello folks, > > Illness and work, both at the same time, prevented me from posting this a > couple of months ago. > > I noted, when Apple released macOS 26 three months ago that it was called > macOS Tahoe and I remembered that there was a processor specific release of > 4.3 BSD back in 1988 that was officially referred to as "4.3BSD tahoe". > The target was Computer Consoles Inc.'s (CCI) Power 6/32 processor, which was codenamed Tahoe (after Lake Tahoe). > > I mention this only because, statistically, the chances of two Unix > releases being given the same name must be slim, granted they were for > different reasons, one referring to the platform it was to run on and the > other because I guess Apple thought it was a nice name? Different people, although both are named after the same place. In most (if not all) of the companies I have worked at, project code names are controlled by the Marketing group. The first nine releases of Mac OS X were codenamed after "Big Cats" [Cheetah 10.0 through Mountain Lion 10.8 ]. Starting with 10.9 [Maverick — the famous big-wave surfing spot near Half Moon Bay], Apple began using physical landmarks in California. I doubt that the people at Apple picking codenames knew that Lake Tahoe had already been used in the computer community, either by the CCI or by CRSG's specific release for the CCI's Power 6/32 (*a.k.a.* Tahoe Processor). > > > I guess it could also be argued they didn't have the same name as one was > "tahoe" and the other is "Tahoe" or that they did but that one being > capitalized and one not is how the statistics were defeated. > Not really, since both are referring to Lake Tahoe. I suspect ignorance and indifference to the previous product name being associated with another processor firm's product codename. From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Dec 10 01:57:37 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Larry McVoy via TUHS) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 07:57:37 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Tahoe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20251209155737.GJ27513@mcvoy.com> On Tue, Dec 09, 2025 at 10:49:21AM -0500, Clem Cole via TUHS wrote: > ]. Starting with 10.9 [Maverick ??? the famous big-wave surfing spot near > Half Moon Bay], Apple began using physical landmarks in California. Not that it's important, but I fish out of Half Moon Bay regularly and go around Mavericks every time. It's a big reef that forces the waves to crest up, you are well served to go around it. In spite of that, I see idiots cross the reef all the time. Can't fix stupid I guess. -- --- Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Dec 10 02:38:41 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Rob Pritchard via TUHS) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 16:38:41 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Tahoe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, if the next MacOS release is called ‘Reno’ then we know their marketing teams are running out of ideas! > On 9 Dec 2025, at 15:16, Cameron Míċeál Tyre via TUHS wrote: > > Hello folks, > > Illness and work, both at the same time, prevented me from posting this a couple of months ago. > > I noted, when Apple released macOS 26 three months ago that it was called macOS Tahoe and I remembered that there was a processor specific release of 4.3 BSD back in 1988 that was officially referred to as "4.3BSD tahoe". > > I mention this only because, statistically, the chances of two Unix releases being given the same name must be slim, granted they were for different reasons, one referring to the platform it was to run on and the other because I guess Apple thought it was a nice name? > > I guess it could also be argued they didn't have the same name as one was "tahoe" and the other is "Tahoe" or that they did but that one being capitalized and one not is how the statistics were defeated. > > Have a safe rest of your week, everyone! > > Cameron > > From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Dec 10 03:15:40 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Al Kossow via TUHS) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 09:15:40 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Tahoe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 12/9/25 7:16 AM, Cameron Míċeál Tyre via TUHS wrote: > Hello folks, > > Illness and work, both at the same time, prevented me from posting this a couple of months ago. > > I noted, when Apple released macOS 26 three months ago that it was called macOS Tahoe and I remembered that there was a processor specific release of 4.3 BSD back in 1988 that was officially referred to as "4.3BSD tahoe". > Codenames get reused https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=4.3BSD-Tahoe I worked on an internal Apple RISC project called Jaguar which has nothing to do with MacOS 10.2 From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Dec 10 06:46:01 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (christopher fujino via TUHS) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 12:46:01 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Tahoe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm bet both Berkeley researchers and Apple product managers in Cupertino go skiing in Tahoe. On Tue, Dec 9, 2025 at 9:15 AM Al Kossow via TUHS wrote: > On 12/9/25 7:16 AM, Cameron Míċeál Tyre via TUHS wrote: > > Hello folks, > > > > Illness and work, both at the same time, prevented me from posting this > a couple of months ago. > > > > I noted, when Apple released macOS 26 three months ago that it was > called macOS Tahoe and I remembered that there was a processor specific > release of 4.3 BSD back in 1988 that was officially referred to as "4.3BSD > tahoe". > > > > Codenames get reused > > https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=4.3BSD-Tahoe > > I worked on an internal Apple RISC project called Jaguar which has nothing > to do with MacOS 10.2 > > > From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Dec 10 08:57:10 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Alan Coopersmith via TUHS) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 14:57:10 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] XPG4, X/OPEN Curses, and SVID Issue 4 Physical Publication? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/24/25 10:57, segaloco via TUHS wrote: > Good day everyone, I've recently added an X/OPEN Portability Guide > section and a photo of the first SVID issue to the standards section of > the wiki: https://wiki.tuhs.org/doku.php?id=publications:standards > > I was wondering, does anyone here know if there were physically > published versions of XPG4, any X/OPEN Curses physical literature, > and/or published SVID Issue 4 copies? The latter I suspect is not very > likely as SVID Issue 4 concerns spun-off-USL SVR 4.2 I believe, which > didn't make the same splash earlier SVIDs did. I've only seen PDFs of > this Issue 4. I finally remembered to check our standards bookshelf when I was in the office today, and found printed copies of: - Docs with XPG4 branding: - CAE Specification: System Interfaces and Headers, Issue 4 - CAE Specification: Commands and Utilities, Issue 4 - CAE Specification: System Interface Definitions, Issue 4 - XPG3-XPG4 Base Migration Guide - X/Open Systems and Branded Products: XPG4 - Docs which didn't explictly have "XPG4" on the cover: - CAE Specification: Networking Services, Issue 4 - CAE Specification: X/Open Curses, Issue 4 While there were copies of earlier SVID generations, I didn't see Issue 4 there. I took quick pictures with my cell phone of the covers of each of these if you want them - they're not archival quality scans or anything, but it doesn't look like that's what you're going for on that wiki page. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersmith at oracle.com Oracle Solaris Engineering - https://blogs.oracle.com/solaris From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Dec 10 11:46:43 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (=?utf-8?q?Cameron_M=C3=AD=C4=8Be=C3=A1l_Tyre_via_TUHS?=) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 01:46:43 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Tahoe Message-ID: Hello, folks, Thank you all for your comments on Tahoe and project names and I guess Lake Tahoe is on my bucket list because it looks beautiful. Rob's comment about Reno made me chuckle although I guess it's the wrong side of the state line for Apple to use although there is that famous saying, "Never say never!" Best regards, Cameron From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Dec 10 12:53:52 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Erik E. Fair via TUHS) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2025 18:53:52 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Tahoe In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <21977.1765335232@cesium.clock.org> >From: =?utf-8?q?Cameron_Míċeál_Tyre_via_TUHS?= > >Hello, folks, > >Thank you all for your comments on Tahoe and project names and I guess Lake Tahoe is on my bucket list because it looks beautiful. > >Rob's comment about Reno made me chuckle although I guess it's the wrong side of the state line for Apple to use although there is that famous saying, "Never say never!" > >Best regards, > >Cameron Funny you should say "wrong side of the state line" - the wallpaper and other photos of Lake Tahoe that Apple likes to use (there's been one in MacOS for a decade or more, taken during wildfire smoke inundation) are taken from the east (Nevada) shoreline at Sand Harbor (Lake Tahoe Nevada state park) and Memorial point, along NV-28. I know because I've lived in Incline Village, NV (NE corner of Lake Tahoe) since 2002 and have been coming up to North Lake Tahoe (winter & summer) since I was a child. I'm quite familiar with the local landscape. So long as Apple's theme is "pretty/famous places in California", I don't expect they'll run out in the near term: they could use Point Reyes, Mount Shasta, Napa, Mount Lassen, Joshua Tree, Mammoth, Devil's Postpile, Bodie, Downieville, Portola, ... Erik Fair From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Dec 10 13:39:02 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Larry McVoy via TUHS) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2025 19:39:02 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Tahoe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20251210033902.GK27513@mcvoy.com> If you, or anyone, gets close enough to go to Lake Tahoe, I can take you out to the Pacific. I've kind of left tech behind, I put in my 30 years, and while I like tracking tech, I love fishing on the ocean. It's my retirement, it's complicated enough that it engages my engineer brain a bit but it is way easier than the problems I solved as an engineer. I can put you on fish, for sure. Halibut, rockies, lings, crabs, salmon when they let us fish for those (which is not often). I'm still chasing tuna, hauled them in on my friends boat, not gotten them on my boat. On Wed, Dec 10, 2025 at 01:46:43AM +0000, Cameron M????e??l Tyre via TUHS wrote: > Hello, folks, > > Thank you all for your comments on Tahoe and project names and I guess Lake Tahoe is on my bucket list because it looks beautiful. > > Rob's comment about Reno made me chuckle although I guess it's the wrong side of the state line for Apple to use although there is that famous saying, "Never say never!" > > Best regards, > > Cameron -- --- Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Dec 10 17:06:14 2025 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Arno Griffioen via TUHS) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2025 08:06:14 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Tahoe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 09, 2025 at 09:15:40AM -0800, Al Kossow via TUHS wrote: > Codenames get reused > > https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=4.3BSD-Tahoe > > I worked on an internal Apple RISC project called Jaguar which has nothing > to do with MacOS 10.2 And of course 'Jaguar' was also the name of the ill-fated Atari game console from the early 90's, so that nicely proves the point ;) Bye, Arno.