From imp at bsdimp.com Thu Sep 1 00:45:37 2005 From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 08:45:37 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [TUHS] A patch for compiling vtserver under linux ... In-Reply-To: <20050831074730.GA21204@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20050830204424.GA9088@freaknet.org> <20050831074730.GA21204@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <20050831.084537.52166471.imp@bsdimp.com> In message: <20050831074730.GA21204 at minnie.tuhs.org> Warren Toomey writes: : On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 08:44:24PM +0000, asbesto wrote: : > Here's a patch to compile vtserver 2.3a-20010404 under linux: : : [ patch omitted] : : Thanks Asbesto and also congratulations on getting your system to : boot. Fred van Kempen has taken over maintenance of vtserver, but : I don't have a working e-mail address for him. Does anybody know : how to contact him? I'm surprised the patch is even necessary. vtserver builds on my redhad development environment unchanged... Warner From lm at bitmover.com Thu Sep 1 11:39:12 2005 From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:39:12 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] looking for old school hackers Message-ID: <20050901013912.GD1166@bitmover.com> Hi, Sorry if this is spam but in a flash of "well, duh!" insight I realized this is the right place. We're looking for systems people and we really like minimalists. What I tell people when I hire them is "If it's in the 1986 SVID or if it is sockets or mmap, you can use it. Anything else is off limits". And our code works everywhere, we can bring up a new platform in about an hour and our source base is not trivial. We're all C and bourne shell (ok, yeah, some tcl/tk for guis). We're hacking bwk's awk source base (he sent me ~bwk/awk with all the source, tests, the source to the book in english and french, gotta love that) so we can use it to be the front end to our simple database (if you think about it an SQL select statement looks one heck of a lot like an awk program). It's pretty cool, we're making a scripting language for systems people that is small. Kind of what perl would have been if it had been part of V7. Oh, and the language is going to be open source if that's important to you. We are looking for a few solid programmers. We pay well, we're profitable, no debt, no outside investors, stable revenue stream, and we're growing. Our growth is limited by our ability to hire which in turn is limited by my taste. Which is very much in line with this community, small is good, simple is good, complex sucks. We live and die by Brian's comment that debugging is harder than coding so if you were clever when you were coding you are by definition not smart enough to debug the code. What we have to offer is a stable place to work, no crap from idiot managers or money grubbing VC's. What we are working is cutting edge, ping me for information, it's more than what is publicly known. We're in the Bay Area and we want you to be too. If it's a fit we'll pay to relocate you. Please let me know if you are interested. And if you aren't but you know someone who is a good fit we'll cough up a $10K referral fee provided that they last at least one year here. Thanks, -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com From asbesto at freaknet.org Fri Sep 2 01:33:59 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:33:59 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] the Data General ECLIPSE MV/7800XP ... booted from tape! :) Message-ID: <20050901153359.GA11035@freaknet.org> well, another great day! we booted via tape! :))) the problem was that the eclipse need to load the "MICROCODE" before read anything else; and we had 2 problems: 1) the tape head was so dirty that we can feel the dirt on the head touching with a finger! after cleaning it, the tape reader now perfectly! 2) the microcode original tape is ... in horrible conditions! it release magnetic particles touching it, and the tape reader can't read it :((( BUT we found that a microcode copy can be loaded from the hard disk (a 550 mb disk, very big and huge ! :) so, we can now load the microcode from hard disk and, after that, boot the DG/UX installation tape :D AND WE'RE SO HAPPY, SOOO HAPPY, WE LOVE ALL ! :) the main problem is how to do a backup of the whole disk, to preserve the original AOS/VS installation, before trying an installation of DG/UX. Any hint? :) p.s. some images here: http://dyne.org/~asbesto/eclipse/eflags many tnx to eflags for the help (he's the guy in the photos). It's a sort of JESUS. He touch hardware imposing hands, then the hardware magically works. :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From asbesto at freaknet.org Fri Sep 2 07:04:42 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 21:04:42 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] we break into AOS/VS :) Message-ID: <20050901210442.GA26986@freaknet.org> http://zaverio.net/eclipse/eflags/ we hacked in! :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vasco at icpnet.pl Fri Sep 2 20:23:55 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 12:23:55 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] we break into AOS/VS :) In-Reply-To: <20050901210442.GA26986@freaknet.org> References: <20050901210442.GA26986@freaknet.org> Message-ID: <4318283B.8040407@icpnet.pl> Użytkownik asbesto napisał: >http://zaverio.net/eclipse/eflags/ > >we hacked in! :) > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > Congratulations. If I were You I would not touch AOS/VS disk. There is no warranty , that You will be able to install UX or restore AOS from tape and You can end up with two not working systems. Try to find another disk and then install UX if possible. I have spent 8 years on IBM mainframe so I have "sympathy" for these old machines. Andrzej From asbesto at freaknet.org Fri Sep 2 21:37:57 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:37:57 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] we break into AOS/VS :) In-Reply-To: <4318283B.8040407@icpnet.pl> References: <20050901210442.GA26986@freaknet.org> <4318283B.8040407@icpnet.pl> Message-ID: <20050902113757.GA8334@freaknet.org> Il Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 12:23:55PM +0200, Andrzej Popielewicz rigurgitava: > >http://zaverio.net/eclipse/eflags/ > >we hacked in! :) > Congratulations. tnx :) > If I were You I would not touch AOS/VS disk. There is no warranty , that > You will be able to install UX or restore AOS from tape and You can end > up with two not working systems. Try to find another disk and then > install UX if possible. that's our problem - we don't have AOS/VS installation tapes, this is very strange. we only have DG/UX installation tapes, but the system itself use AOS/VS ... :( the main problem is : - how to do a full disk backup of the actual system, and - how to RESTORE IT back in the eclipse having a working AOS/VS again! really we don't know how to do this; we can't find informations about AOS/VS, the only manual is Phrack Magazine #44 :( the best is to have AOS/VS installation tapes - where can we search for them ? BOOOH :( now we are studying AOS/VS, maybe in the next days we can offer free access to the machine (it's the main goal of our lab: let people use those old computers; we have 2 digital VAX/VMS online now, it's our idea of having a "working" museum :) > I have spent 8 years on IBM mainframe so I have "sympathy" for these old > machines. me too! :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From asbesto at freaknet.org Mon Sep 5 01:17:18 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 15:17:18 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] news about the Data General Eclipse Message-ID: <20050904151718.GA20124@freaknet.org> well, we discovered that we have MV/UX installed together with AOS/VS, so we have a weird UNIX running ... under AOS/VS :))) so, our goal is, for now, to preserve the actual system, and to make a copy of the tapes (now we can use "dd" to read/copy them) we're experimenting, stay tuned we wrote some documentation in http://zaverio.net/eclipse/stuff, and we will put online some help ASAP p.s. any help/hint appreciated :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From asbesto at freaknet.org Mon Sep 5 01:48:12 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 15:48:12 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Jesus uses Eclipse MV/7800XP Message-ID: <20050904154812.GA22617@freaknet.org> Fun at Poetry Hacklab : http://zaverio.net/eclipse/eflags/tn/dscn6703.jpg.html other at http://zaverio.net/eclipse/eflags/ and some .MOV under "stuff" :) enjoy! :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From iking at killthewabbit.org Mon Sep 5 03:21:38 2005 From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:21:38 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] news about the Data General Eclipse In-Reply-To: <20050904151718.GA20124@freaknet.org> Message-ID: <004101c5b175$1c0ab180$2a0010ac@killthewabbit.org> As I recall, that's the way MV/UX worked: it ran on top of AOS/VS. -----Original Message----- From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On Behalf Of asbesto Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 8:17 AM To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org Subject: [TUHS] news about the Data General Eclipse well, we discovered that we have MV/UX installed together with AOS/VS, so we have a weird UNIX running ... under AOS/VS :))) so, our goal is, for now, to preserve the actual system, and to make a copy of the tapes (now we can use "dd" to read/copy them) we're experimenting, stay tuned we wrote some documentation in http://zaverio.net/eclipse/stuff, and we will put online some help ASAP p.s. any help/hint appreciated :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] From asbesto at freaknet.org Wed Sep 7 06:12:26 2005 From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:12:26 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] DG/UX 4 tape images ... are incoming! Message-ID: <20050906201226.GA3594@freaknet.org> We're succesfully dumping the DG/UX tapes we have here. :) we had a lot of problem due to "Sticky shed syndrome": the tape stick to the head, causing the tape to lock while reading data ... cooking tapes will be a solution, but we followed another idea: we used a special Teflon Lubricant Spray (here in italy is "CRC TEFLON PENLUB SPRAY" this is PERFECT for tapes - we had to rewind the tape spraying the lubricant on the tape. this cause no problems at all, and we red sticky tapes without problems! the tape images are here: http://zaverio.net/eclipse/stuff/TAPE-IMAGES/ i don't know if there is (C) on those tapes - and really, i don't care about it. I think preserving them is a MISSION for us, and, so, here are the images. happy hacking! :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vasco at icpnet.pl Sun Sep 11 18:42:38 2005 From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:42:38 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] DG/UX 4 tape images ... are incoming! In-Reply-To: <20050906201226.GA3594@freaknet.org> References: <20050906201226.GA3594@freaknet.org> Message-ID: <4323EDFE.1070002@icpnet.pl> Użytkownik asbesto napisał: >We're succesfully dumping the DG/UX tapes we have here. :) > >we had a lot of problem due to "Sticky shed syndrome": the >tape stick to the head, causing the tape to lock while >reading data ... > >cooking tapes will be a solution, but we followed another >idea: we used a special Teflon Lubricant Spray (here in >italy is "CRC TEFLON PENLUB SPRAY" > >this is PERFECT for tapes - we had to rewind the tape >spraying the lubricant on the tape. this cause no >problems at all, and we red sticky tapes without >problems! > >the tape images are here: > >http://zaverio.net/eclipse/stuff/TAPE-IMAGES/ > >i don't know if there is (C) on those tapes - and really, i >don't care about it. I think preserving them is a MISSION for >us, and, so, here are the images. > >happy hacking! :) > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > I have seen in http://www.computermuseum-muenchen.de a pdp project starting. From gunnarr at acm.org Thu Sep 15 22:38:08 2005 From: gunnarr at acm.org (Gunnar Ritter) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:38:08 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] Enhanced troff available Message-ID: <43296b30.UeKZoLxd0OuPcmR1%gunnarr@acm.org> Hi, perhaps some people on this list are interested to hear that I have updated troff (from OpenSolaris code) to support: - direct access to PostScript Type 1 and Type 42 (converted TrueType) fonts - small capitals, old-style numerals, and ligatures from PostScript "expert" fonts - pairwise kerning of characters and letter space tracking, including a request to create kerning pairs for characters from different fonts - hanging characters - arbitrary letter sizes, including fractional points - text input according to the locale, including UTF-8 input on most platforms - hyphenation of international languages - international paper sizes such as A4 - DSC-conforming PostScript output - PDF bookmarks - higher device resolutions. Source code is available at . Gunnar From txomsy at yahoo.es Sun Sep 25 21:31:47 2005 From: txomsy at yahoo.es (Jose R. Valverde) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 13:31:47 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] UZI Message-ID: <20050925133147.218abf0c.txomsy@yahoo.es> I thought someone might be interested. Regarding UNIX history, it is certainly interesting, although the code is not directly descended from ATT UNIX, but rather an independent lineage: http://www.dougbraun.com/uzi.html an implementation of UNIX for Zilog machines. I have been aware of UNIX initiatives for Zilog since the 80's (some friends of mine worked on a port for the Z8000), and like to check from time to time is somthing pops up. This one is an independent implementation of Unix 7th Ed written from scratch. Link to derivative work to port UZI to the veberable MSX: http://uzux.sf.net/ And another interesting one, the One Man Unix (OMU) http://tallyho.bc.nu/~steve/omu.html another one written from scratch, this one for the 6809, and later ported to the 68000, even with an RT version! I think it is worth preserving these works as well: they are a huge tribute to the simplicity of UNIX design and its popularity. Perhaps they might find some space in the 'others' category of the archive together with Coherent, Trix and some others? j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From newsham at lava.net Tue Sep 27 03:09:05 2005 From: newsham at lava.net (Tim Newsham) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:09:05 -1000 (HST) Subject: [TUHS] kronos Message-ID: I accidentally stumbled across this: http://www.excelsior-usa.com/krg/krg.html Perhaps only marginally relevant to tuhs. It's a historic soviet system modelled after Wirth's Lilith system. There's an emulator on the page that works in windows. You can log in as "sys" with no password. There are some familiar unix commands like "cd" and "ls", and others like "find" which seem to differ from the traditional unix commands. The system is written in modula II. There is some account information in /usr/etc and some docs (I think /doc or /usr/doc?) but they are in russian. I'd love to hear more about the system if anyone here knows more about it. Tim Newsham http://www.lava.net/~newsham/ From madcrow.maxwell at gmail.com Mon Sep 26 22:55:52 2005 From: madcrow.maxwell at gmail.com (Madcrow Maxwell) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:55:52 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] UZI In-Reply-To: <20050925133147.218abf0c.txomsy@yahoo.es> References: <20050925133147.218abf0c.txomsy@yahoo.es> Message-ID: <8dd2d95c05092605557c4895a2@mail.gmail.com> On 9/25/05, Jose R. Valverde wrote: > I thought someone might be interested. Regarding UNIX history, it is certainly > interesting, although the code is not directly descended from ATT UNIX, but > rather an independent lineage: > > http://www.dougbraun.com/uzi.html Very cool... a V7 clone for Z80... Very cool. I'm still holding out for a unix clone for 6502 as Unix on a C64 would be very VERY cool, but this is pretty good as it is... Also, I couldn't find the UZUX you mentioned and the link didn't go anywhere, but I did find UZIX which sounds quite similar. It's address is http://uzix.sourceforge.net/ From billcu1 at verizon.net Tue Sep 27 05:28:33 2005 From: billcu1 at verizon.net (Bill Cunningham) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:28:33 -0400 Subject: [TUHS] C compiler Message-ID: <001801c5c2d0$7c87fc40$2f01a8c0@myhome.westell.com> In some of the eary versions of unix if I'm correct you had to generate the C compiler. Now how was that done? Was the compiler written in assembly and the assembler generated crt0 crt1 and so on? Bill From wkt at tuhs.org Tue Sep 27 08:04:29 2005 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:04:29 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] C compiler In-Reply-To: <001801c5c2d0$7c87fc40$2f01a8c0@myhome.westell.com> References: <001801c5c2d0$7c87fc40$2f01a8c0@myhome.westell.com> Message-ID: <20050926220429.GA88706@minnie.tuhs.org> On Mon, Sep 26, 2005 at 03:28:33PM -0400, Bill Cunningham wrote: > In some of the eary versions of unix if I'm correct you had to generate > the C compiler. Now how was that done? Was the compiler written in assembly > and the assembler generated crt0 crt1 and so on? If you had a distribution tape, then it came with C compiler binaries and source. You used the compiler binaries to rebuild the compiler. Obviously, to get to that point was a bit harder. A good reference to this is "The Development of the C Language" by Dennis Ritchie, available at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/chist.html A quick read seems to indicate that Ken created a language called B which was patterned on BCPL, with a compiler initially in assembly language. Then Ken rewrote the B compiler in B and bootstrapped it using the existing compiler. Then Dennis extended the B language to become NB, which then evolved to become C. Along the way, new language features were added in to the compiler, but the features couldn't be used _in_ the compiler until they worked. As noted on this page, http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/primevalC.html, Dennis says "Evolving compilers written in their own language are careful not to take advantage of their own latest features." Cheers, Warren From rbelk at jam.rr.com Tue Sep 27 08:51:51 2005 From: rbelk at jam.rr.com (Randy Belk) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:51:51 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] UZI In-Reply-To: <8dd2d95c05092605557c4895a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050925133147.218abf0c.txomsy@yahoo.es> <8dd2d95c05092605557c4895a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43387B87.5020105@jam.rr.com> Madcrow Maxwell wrote: >On 9/25/05, Jose R. Valverde wrote: > > > >>I thought someone might be interested. Regarding UNIX history, it is certainly >>interesting, although the code is not directly descended from ATT UNIX, but >>rather an independent lineage: >> >> http://www.dougbraun.com/uzi.html >> >> > > >Very cool... a V7 clone for Z80... Very cool. I'm still holding out >for a unix clone for 6502 as Unix on a C64 would be very VERY cool, >but this is pretty good as it is... > >Also, I couldn't find the UZUX you mentioned and the link didn't go >anywhere, but I did find UZIX which sounds quite similar. It's address >is http://uzix.sourceforge.net/ >_______________________________________________ >TUHS mailing list >TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs > > There already is a UNIX clone for the Commodore 64 Lunix - http://lng.sourceforge.net/ From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz Tue Sep 27 17:45:03 2005 From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:45:03 +1200 Subject: [TUHS] C compiler In-Reply-To: <20050926220429.GA88706@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <001801c5c2d0$7c87fc40$2f01a8c0@myhome.westell.com> <20050926220429.GA88706@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <200509271945.04036.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> B! I would like to have a look at that - that, and NB. Does anyone know if they're still extant, or their documentation at the very least? (I've seen BCPL, and read some of its documentation, but it's still a hop-skip-and-a-jump away from C. Some BCPL things do seem a little bit strange to a C user ... ;) Wesley Parish On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:04, Warren Toomey wrote: > On Mon, Sep 26, 2005 at 03:28:33PM -0400, Bill Cunningham wrote: > > In some of the eary versions of unix if I'm correct you had to > > generate the C compiler. Now how was that done? Was the compiler written > > in assembly and the assembler generated crt0 crt1 and so on? > > If you had a distribution tape, then it came with C compiler binaries and > source. You used the compiler binaries to rebuild the compiler. > > Obviously, to get to that point was a bit harder. > A good reference to this is "The Development of the C Language" by > Dennis Ritchie, available at > http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/chist.html > > A quick read seems to indicate that Ken created a language called B which > was patterned on BCPL, with a compiler initially in assembly language. Then > Ken rewrote the B compiler in B and bootstrapped it using the existing > compiler. Then Dennis extended the B language to become NB, which then > evolved to become C. > > Along the way, new language features were added in to the compiler, > but the features couldn't be used _in_ the compiler until they worked. > As noted on this page, > http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/primevalC.html, Dennis says "Evolving > compilers written in their own language are careful not to take advantage > of their own latest features." > > Cheers, > Warren > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people. From wkt at tuhs.org Tue Sep 27 17:44:34 2005 From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:44:34 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] C compiler In-Reply-To: <200509271945.04036.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> References: <001801c5c2d0$7c87fc40$2f01a8c0@myhome.westell.com> <20050926220429.GA88706@minnie.tuhs.org> <200509271945.04036.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <20050927074434.GA10695@minnie.tuhs.org> On Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 07:45:03PM +1200, Wesley Parish wrote: > B! I would like to have a look at that - that, and NB. > Does anyone know if they're still extant, or their documentation at the very > least? (I've seen BCPL, and read some of its documentation, but it's still a > hop-skip-and-a-jump away from C. Some BCPL things do seem a little bit > strange to a C user ... ;) One or both of the referenced articles suggest that all traces have disappeared. There may be a B or NB language manual laying around... Yes: http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/kbman.html and http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/bintro.html Warren From txomsy at yahoo.es Tue Sep 27 19:43:17 2005 From: txomsy at yahoo.es (Jose R Valverde) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:43:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [TUHS] B and BCPL Message-ID: <20050927094317.89057.qmail@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> See in http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mr/index.html where you can find an existing, working (!) and even maintained (!!) and evolving (!!!) BCPL system. And on http://www.catb.org/retro/ you'll find a link to a B-to-C translator: http://www.catb.org/retro/btoc.tar.gz BTW, and just in case my previous mail got lost: the correct URL for UZIX (UNIX for the MSX) is http://uzix.sf.net/ (sorry 'bout the mistake) j ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From txomsy at yahoo.es Tue Sep 27 19:44:30 2005 From: txomsy at yahoo.es (Jose R Valverde) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:44:30 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [TUHS] UZIX Message-ID: <20050927094430.48745.qmail@web26101.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Sorry, it was my mistake. I was typing on a slow remote connection and didn't notice until you brought it up. The correct link is http://uzix.sf.net That's the home page for UZIX, a descendant of UZI aiming for the MSX. Sorry again, j ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz Tue Sep 27 20:13:31 2005 From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:13:31 +1200 Subject: [TUHS] B and BCPL In-Reply-To: <20050927094317.89057.qmail@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <20050927094317.89057.qmail@web26104.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200509272213.31299.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Many thanks Wesley Parish On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:43, Jose R Valverde wrote: > See in > > http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mr/index.html > > where you can find an existing, working (!) and even > maintained (!!) and evolving (!!!) BCPL system. > > And on > > http://www.catb.org/retro/ > > you'll find a link to a B-to-C translator: > > http://www.catb.org/retro/btoc.tar.gz > > BTW, and just in case my previous mail got lost: the > correct URL for UZIX (UNIX for the MSX) is > > http://uzix.sf.net/ > > (sorry 'bout the mistake) > > j > > On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:44, Warren Toomey wrote: > One or both of the referenced articles suggest that all traces have > disappeared. There may be a B or NB language manual laying around... Yes: > http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/kbman.html and > http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/bintro.html > > Warren > _______________________________________________ > > > ______________________________________________ > Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! > Nuevos servicios, más seguridad > http://correo.yahoo.es > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.