From iking at killthewabbit.org Fri Feb 7 18:18:37 2003 From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 00:18:37 -0800 Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD Message-ID: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the list a question now. :-) I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install 2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33. I also have a DECstation 5000/200 with a TK50, so my first efforts were to dd the files onto a tape. Depending on how I hacked around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error or "Error 21 - drive error". The two ways I tried to put the boot files on were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot). Depending on how I hacked around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error or "Error 21 - drive error" from the boot ROM monitor. With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least a boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot + mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on the floppy. I got the same "Error 21". The machine also has a working RD54 containing Micro/RSX and some proprietary software for managing a parking lot. :-) I can boot to an RSX prompt (although I can't log in, having none of the passwords), so most of the machine appears to be working. While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build bootable media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable TK50; I have blank tapes.... Either way, I hope someone can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance -- Ian From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk Fri Feb 7 21:20:35 2003 From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 11:20:35 +0000 Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD In-Reply-To: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> Message-ID: Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory. You can build this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up. Cheers Robin In message <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac at dawabbit>, Ian King writes >I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the >list a question now. :-) I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install >2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33. I also have a DECstation >5000/200 with a TK50, so my first efforts were to dd the files onto a tape. >Depending on how I hacked around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error >or "Error 21 - drive error". The two ways I tried to put the boot files on >were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the >instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot). Depending on how I hacked >around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error or "Error 21 - drive >error" from the boot ROM monitor. > >With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least a >boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot + >mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on the >floppy. I got the same "Error 21". > >The machine also has a working RD54 containing Micro/RSX and some >proprietary software for managing a parking lot. :-) I can boot to an RSX >prompt (although I can't log in, having none of the passwords), so most of >the machine appears to be working. > >While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build bootable >media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable TK50; >I have blank tapes.... Either way, I hope someone can point me in the right >direction. Thanks in advance -- Ian > >_______________________________________________ >PUPS mailing list >PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups -- Robin Birch From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Fri Feb 7 23:53:56 2003 From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:53:56 -0500 Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD In-Reply-To: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit>; from iking@killthewabbit.org on Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 12:18:37AM -0800 References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> Message-ID: <20030207085356.A5249@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 12:18:37AM -0800, Ian King wrote: > I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the > list a question now. :-) I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install > 2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33. Sounds like a fun box. > The two ways I tried to put the boot files on > were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the > instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot). Since I just went through this a few weeks ago, I'll mention that this won't work because you won't ende up with the boot programmes aligned on block boundaries. The "maketape" command supposedly works well, and I made a tape with it, but never did get around to trying to actually boot that tape. > With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least a > boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot + > mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on the > floppy. I got the same "Error 21". > I don't know whether that would do anything useful, since AFAIK the boot blocks assume tape. > While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build bootable > media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable TK50; > I have blank tapes.... Whereabouts are you? Someone can likely help. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual From chd_1 at nktelco.net Sat Feb 8 00:11:50 2003 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Chuck Dickman) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:11:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD In-Reply-To: References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> Message-ID: <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org> > Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory. You can build > this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the > standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up. > > Cheers > > Robin Birch Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think that a TK50 is TMSCP. -chuck From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Sat Feb 8 00:32:38 2003 From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:32:38 -0500 Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD In-Reply-To: <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org>; from chd_1@nktelco.net on Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:11:50AM -0500 References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20030207093238.A5356@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:11:50AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote: > Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think > that a TK50 is TMSCP. > The TK50 is definately TMSCP. You sure that the standalone system can't handle it (my machine is at home and turned off right now, so I can't check anything)? If so then that's a major PITA and I guess some hacking is in order. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual From chd_1 at nktelco.net Sat Feb 8 00:57:45 2003 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Chuck Dickman) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:57:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD In-Reply-To: <20030207093238.A5356@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org> <20030207093238.A5356@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <15367.209.143.24.164.1044629865.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org> > On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:11:50AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote: >> Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think >> that a TK50 is TMSCP. >> I am wrong. :-( It _is_ supported. :-) > The TK50 is definately TMSCP. You sure that the standalone system > can't handle it (my machine is at home and turned off right now, so I > can't check anything)? If so then that's a major PITA and I guess some > hacking is in order. Thats what I get for not looking at the sources. From mtboot.s: * Primary tape boot program to load and execute secondary boot. * This is a universal tape boot which can handle HT, TM, TS and TMSCP * tapes. This boot is FULL. Some of the more extended error * checking had to be left out to get all the drivers to fit. > David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) -chuck From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Sat Feb 8 01:01:22 2003 From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:01:22 -0500 Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD In-Reply-To: <15367.209.143.24.164.1044629865.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org>; from chd_1@nktelco.net on Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:57:45AM -0500 References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org> <20030207093238.A5356@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> <15367.209.143.24.164.1044629865.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20030207100122.A5406@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:57:45AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:11:50AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote: > >> Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think > >> that a TK50 is TMSCP. > >> > > I am wrong. :-( It _is_ supported. :-) > Phew! -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk Sat Feb 8 03:00:07 2003 From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:00:07 +0000 Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD In-Reply-To: <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org> References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org> Message-ID: In message <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel at www.chd.dyndns.org>, Chuck Dickman writes >> Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory. You can build >> this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the >> standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up. >> >> Cheers >> >> Robin Birch > >Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think >that a TK50 is TMSCP. > >-chuck > > As you will have been told, it is supported, quite well in fact. I have run 11/73s and 83s from TK50 and TMSCP exabyte drives for years and they work a treat. You really need the maketape program. You can then dd and tar the rest on to the tape but the initial step needs to be done the "official" way. To repeat a question already asked, where are you. If you really can't get over this then someone nearby can hopefully cut you a tape. Cheers Robin > >_______________________________________________ >PUPS mailing list >PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups -- Robin Birch From iking at killthewabbit.org Sat Feb 8 03:23:21 2003 From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:23:21 -0800 Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> Message-ID: <000401c2cecd$9d4186d0$7f0010ac@pepelepew> Yup, that's what I get for trying to be clever. :-) I built and ran maketape, and the 11/73 likes the resulting tape (boots). So I'm remaking the tape with the tar's on it (per the instructions). I also happened to look at my work email, and saw the recent thread on this same subject - doh! Maybe we should add something to the /2.11BSD distribution README with the caveats we've learned? -- Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Birch" To: "Ian King" Cc: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:20 AM Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD > Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory. You can build > this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the > standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up. > > Cheers > > Robin > > > In message <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac at dawabbit>, Ian King > writes > >I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the > >list a question now. :-) I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install > >2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33. I also have a DECstation > >5000/200 with a TK50, so my first efforts were to dd the files onto a tape. > >Depending on how I hacked around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error > >or "Error 21 - drive error". The two ways I tried to put the boot files on > >were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the > >instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot). Depending on how I hacked > >around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error or "Error 21 - drive > >error" from the boot ROM monitor. > > > >With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least a > >boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot + > >mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on the > >floppy. I got the same "Error 21". > > > >The machine also has a working RD54 containing Micro/RSX and some > >proprietary software for managing a parking lot. :-) I can boot to an RSX > >prompt (although I can't log in, having none of the passwords), so most of > >the machine appears to be working. > > > >While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build bootable > >media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable TK50; > >I have blank tapes.... Either way, I hope someone can point me in the right > >direction. Thanks in advance -- Ian > > > >_______________________________________________ > >PUPS mailing list > >PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > -- > Robin Birch > From iking at killthewabbit.org Sun Feb 9 04:48:36 2003 From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 10:48:36 -0800 Subject: Another happy customer (was Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD) References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> <000401c2cecd$9d4186d0$7f0010ac@pepelepew> Message-ID: <000401c2cfa2$b05e3210$450010ac@dawabbit> It's amazing what happens when you follow the directions - thanks for your help, folks. I have 2.11BSD up and running on my 11/73 (booted off the disk, even), and it's currently untarring the last big chunk of /usr/src. (The docs mention that TK50s are slower than snot - believe it!) The system has two RD54s , but I'm following the 'default' installation for now until I have everything running and have successfully rebuilt the kernel; then I'll probably move /usr and /tmp over to the second RD. I also need to dig into the machine a bit more - the bootloader tells me I have an 11/83, so I'm suspecting the CPU was changed at some point. For the record, I live in Seattle, and I can now produce bootable TK50s with 2.11BSD. :-) -- Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian King" To: "Robin Birch" Cc: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD > Yup, that's what I get for trying to be clever. :-) I built and ran > maketape, and the 11/73 likes the resulting tape (boots). So I'm remaking > the tape with the tar's on it (per the instructions). > > I also happened to look at my work email, and saw the recent thread on this > same subject - doh! > > Maybe we should add something to the /2.11BSD distribution README with the > caveats we've learned? -- Ian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Birch" > To: "Ian King" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:20 AM > Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD > > > > Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory. You can build > > this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the > > standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up. > > > > Cheers > > > > Robin > > > > [snip] > > > > -- > > Robin Birch > > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Sun Feb 9 07:47:57 2003 From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:47:57 -0500 Subject: Another happy customer (was Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD) In-Reply-To: <000401c2cfa2$b05e3210$450010ac@dawabbit>; from iking@killthewabbit.org on Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:48:36AM -0800 References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> <000401c2cecd$9d4186d0$7f0010ac@pepelepew> <000401c2cfa2$b05e3210$450010ac@dawabbit> Message-ID: <20030208164757.C18303@bcr4.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:48:36AM -0800, Ian King wrote: > It's amazing what happens when you follow the directions - thanks for your > help, folks. I have 2.11BSD up and running on my 11/73 (booted off the > disk, even), and it's currently untarring the last big chunk of /usr/src. Good job! > I also > need to dig into the machine a bit more - the bootloader tells me I have an > 11/83, so I'm suspecting the CPU was changed at some point. > A KDJ-11B CPU board (quad height) with Qbus memory is an 11/73, while a KDJ-11B CPU with PMI memory is an 11/83. The boot loaded likely just identifies the CPU board type and assumes a /83. It would only claim a /73 if it were running on a KDB-11 (dual height) card. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual From robin.birch at royalmail.com Mon Feb 10 20:06:06 2003 From: robin.birch at royalmail.com (robin.birch at royalmail.com) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:06:06 +0000 Subject: Another happy customer (was Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2 .11BSD) Message-ID: <00256CC9.00379378.00@postoffice.co.uk> Well done, My 83 has 2 RD54s it is a nice configuration. As to your other query about the boot loader saying that it is an 83 as opposed to a 73. The response that you have had is correct AFAIK. My 83 was a 73 before I changed the processor and I had a similar conversation with Steve Schultz. If it is a quad board then the boot loader is doing as well as it can :-) Have fun Robin To: "Robin Birch" cc: Hard Copy To: Hard Copy cc: Date: 08/02/2003 18:48 From: "Ian King" @minnie.tuhs.org Sent by: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org Subject: Another happy customer (was Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD) It's amazing what happens when you follow the directions - thanks for your help, folks. I have 2.11BSD up and running on my 11/73 (booted off the disk, even), and it's currently untarring the last big chunk of /usr/src. (The docs mention that TK50s are slower than snot - believe it!) The system has two RD54s , but I'm following the 'default' installation for now until I have everything running and have successfully rebuilt the kernel; then I'll probably move /usr and /tmp over to the second RD. I also need to dig into the machine a bit more - the bootloader tells me I have an 11/83, so I'm suspecting the CPU was changed at some point. For the record, I live in Seattle, and I can now produce bootable TK50s with 2.11BSD. :-) -- Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian King" To: "Robin Birch" Cc: Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD > Yup, that's what I get for trying to be clever. :-) I built and ran > maketape, and the 11/73 likes the resulting tape (boots). So I'm remaking > the tape with the tar's on it (per the instructions). > > I also happened to look at my work email, and saw the recent thread on this > same subject - doh! > > Maybe we should add something to the /2.11BSD distribution README with the > caveats we've learned? -- Ian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Birch" > To: "Ian King" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:20 AM > Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD > > > > Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory. You can build > > this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the > > standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up. > > > > Cheers > > > > Robin > > > > [snip] > > > > -- > > Robin Birch > > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups _______________________________________________ PUPS mailing list PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From iking at killthewabbit.org Wed Feb 12 05:56:05 2003 From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:56:05 -0800 Subject: [pups] Anyone got a bulkhead connector? Message-ID: <000501c2d207$9ca46a20$450010ac@dawabbit> I've checked commercial vendors and eBay to no avail, so now I'll appeal to the community: I would really like to find a bulkhead connector for a DEQNA card (the part number is CK-DEQNA-KB). If anyone has one they're willing to part with, please send me email with your terms. Otherwise, I'll just have to kludge something - but I'd sure like to do it right, as my 11/73 is in pretty nice shape. :-) TIA -- Ian From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 18 06:35:07 2003 From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:35:07 -0500 Subject: [pups] Test Message-ID: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net> Test! Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the past. Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net "This signature wants to be playing in the snow!" From greg at censoft.com Tue Feb 18 06:58:57 2003 From: greg at censoft.com (Greg Haerr) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:58:57 -0800 Subject: [pups] Test References: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <035101c2d6c7$644562a0$220110ac@WasatchNewport> > Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that > the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the past. Are you trying to wake us all up? - yes, I'm here! Regards, Greg From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 18 07:26:03 2003 From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:26:03 -0500 Subject: [pups] Test References: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net> <035101c2d6c7$644562a0$220110ac@WasatchNewport> Message-ID: <3E51536B.F7904A71@worldnet.att.net> Hello again from Gregg C Levine Oh I know everyone is awake. Except those of us who sleep for work I just haven't heard a squawk from the list since sometime last year. To quote a phrase, "Watch this space!". I'll be posting some questions, RSN. Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net "This signature voted for the party from Naboo!" Greg Haerr wrote: > > > Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that > > the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the past. > > Are you trying to wake us all up? - yes, I'm here! > > Regards, > > Greg From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 18 09:36:28 2003 From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:36:28 -0500 Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test References: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net> <035101c2d6c7$644562a0$220110ac@WasatchNewport> <3E51536B.F7904A71@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <001501c2d6dd$6587a4a0$09b9580c@who5> Hello again from Gregg C Levine Here are those questions: 1) What is the status of networking, with regards to the boot images? 2) Has anyone actually managed to dump the image that's contained within the Soupnik collected UNIX versions to an actual disk? 3) Has anyone actually managed to build a kernel from that source code? Either native, and on a Simh setup will do. Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net "Oh my!" The Second Doctor's nearly favorite phrase. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg C Levine" To: "Greg Haerr" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [pups] Test > Hello again from Gregg C Levine > Oh I know everyone is awake. Except those of us who sleep for work I > just haven't heard a squawk from the list since sometime last year. To > quote a phrase, "Watch this space!". I'll be posting some questions, > RSN. > Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net > "This signature voted for the party from Naboo!" > Greg Haerr wrote: > > > > > Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that > > > the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the past. > > > > Are you trying to wake us all up? - yes, I'm here! > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Tue Feb 18 09:53:09 2003 From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:53:09 -0500 Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test In-Reply-To: <001501c2d6dd$6587a4a0$09b9580c@who5>; from drwho8@worldnet.att.net on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 06:36:28PM -0500 References: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net> <035101c2d6c7$644562a0$220110ac@WasatchNewport> <3E51536B.F7904A71@worldnet.att.net> <001501c2d6dd$6587a4a0$09b9580c@who5> Message-ID: <20030217185309.A28868@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 06:36:28PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote: > 1) What is the status of networking, with regards to the boot images? The distribution doesn't include any networking IIRC. > 2) Has anyone actually managed to dump the image that's contained within the > Soupnik collected UNIX versions to an actual disk? Yep--that's how I got my system bootstrapped. dd'd the image to a SCSI disk and stuck it in my /73. > 3) Has anyone actually managed to build a kernel from that source code? "That" being the stuff in the standard distribution? Yes. > "Oh my!" The Second Doctor's nearly favorite phrase. What, with "oh dear" and "oh, Jamie!" competing for the status of favourite? -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 18 10:41:12 2003 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:41:12 -0500 Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test In-Reply-To: <20030217185309.A28868@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <000001c2d6e6$70a3cb80$21b4580c@who5> Hello again from Gregg C Levine Okay, that covers my questions for your department. Thank you, David. No networking? Why not? Can that be added? And how did you add the source code disks? And as for the comment, David, I just remember them, and write them down. He did say those, and probably has them filed the way I suggested. Mine second, your selection first, and third. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of David Evans > Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:53 PM > To: Gregg C Levine > Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test > > On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 06:36:28PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote: > > 1) What is the status of networking, with regards to the boot images? > > The distribution doesn't include any networking IIRC. > > > 2) Has anyone actually managed to dump the image that's contained within the > > Soupnik collected UNIX versions to an actual disk? > > Yep--that's how I got my system bootstrapped. dd'd the image to a SCSI disk > and stuck it in my /73. > > > 3) Has anyone actually managed to build a kernel from that source code? > > "That" being the stuff in the standard distribution? Yes. > > > "Oh my!" The Second Doctor's nearly favorite phrase. > > What, with "oh dear" and "oh, Jamie!" competing for the status of favourite? > > -- > David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca > Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ > University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer > Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Tue Feb 18 10:48:17 2003 From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:48:17 -0500 Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test In-Reply-To: <000001c2d6e6$70a3cb80$21b4580c@who5>; from hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 07:41:12PM -0500 References: <20030217185309.A28868@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> <000001c2d6e6$70a3cb80$21b4580c@who5> Message-ID: <20030217194817.B29064@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 07:41:12PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote: > No networking? Why not? Don't know. To save on space in the GENERIC kernel, likely. > Can that be added? Yes. > And how did you add the > source code disks? > Hmmm...I'm trying to remember. I *think* that there was actually networking in the SIMH archive, while there is not in the generic install archive. > And as for the comment, David, I just remember them, and write them > down. He did say those, and probably has them filed the way I > suggested. Mine second, your selection first, and third. Heh. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual From iking at killthewabbit.org Tue Feb 18 16:00:03 2003 From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:00:03 -0800 Subject: [pups] Test References: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net> <035101c2d6c7$644562a0$220110ac@WasatchNewport> <3E51536B.F7904A71@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <001901c2d712$fa849010$450010ac@dawabbit> Well, I recently posted an inquiry that was answered by complete silence. :-) (Not complete, actually - someone where I work showed up at my office to discuss it!) No worries, I found a DEQNA cable on eBay; of course, I had to buy the DEQNA, too, but it never hurts to have spares. That should be here by the time I return from my next business trip (I leave tomorrow), and I can begin the process of building a network-enabled 2.11BSD kernel for my 11/73. I'm enjoying this: "my PDP-11 - oh, I mean the 11/73, not the 11/34".... I rearranged stuff and things so I have a VT-52 sitting on top of the 11/73's cabinet, and the ADM-3a on the desk, connected to the 11/34. I'm really having second thoughts about the DECscope, though - clunky old piece of s***, truth be told. Maybe some artifacts of techology are better off forgotten! I'm also revisiting some old threads in which I'd participated, about Unix v6 on the 11/34 - I'm having problems getting cc to work again, with the error "can't find c0.lib". Last time, someone suggested it was a memory problem, and indeed the XXDP diagnostic found a memory defect. This time, XXDP doesn't show a memory problem. I rebuilt my system disk from the 'sacred copy', but I'm seeing the same problem. My next step is to boot single-user and try it - but that's after I get back from The Road, too. OK, did I contribute my quota of noise? Cheers -- Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg C Levine" To: "Greg Haerr" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [pups] Test > Hello again from Gregg C Levine > Oh I know everyone is awake. Except those of us who sleep for work I > just haven't heard a squawk from the list since sometime last year. To > quote a phrase, "Watch this space!". I'll be posting some questions, > RSN. > Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net > "This signature voted for the party from Naboo!" > Greg Haerr wrote: > > > > > Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that > > > the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the past. > > > > Are you trying to wake us all up? - yes, I'm here! > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From Bill.Mayhew at oracle.com Wed Feb 19 01:35:48 2003 From: Bill.Mayhew at oracle.com (Bill Mayhew) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:35:48 -0500 Subject: [pups] Test In-Reply-To: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <001101c2d763$69678000$62dd018a@APRSTBMAYHEW> Oh, good... the silence is not my imagination! -Bill (resisting the temptation to send a simulated auto-reply ;-) ) __________________________________________ Bill Mayhew The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation. -----Original Message----- From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]On Behalf Of Gregg C Levine Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 3:35 PM To: pups at minnie.tuhs.org Subject: [pups] Test Test! Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the past. Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net "This signature wants to be playing in the snow!" From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 19 02:50:41 2003 From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:50:41 -0500 Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test References: Message-ID: <000801c2d76d$e1513d40$eeae580c@who5> Hello fron Gregg C Levine Um no. I was thinking of V7, of the original UNIX. As it happens, I am still not comfortable with the earlier versions of BSD. So, I am interested in getting V7, or V6 to work via a networked environment. And yes, I have seen your file, and the read me for it. Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net "Oh my!" The Second Doctor's nearly favorite phrase. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andru Luvisi" To: "Gregg C Levine" Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test > On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Gregg C Levine wrote: > > Hello again from Gregg C Levine > > Here are those questions: > > 1) What is the status of networking, with regards to the boot images? > > 2) Has anyone actually managed to dump the image that's contained within the > > Soupnik collected UNIX versions to an actual disk? > > 3) Has anyone actually managed to build a kernel from that source code? > > Either native, and on a Simh setup will do. > > If you are asking about 2.11BSD, I have managed to build a kernel with > networking support which works on simh. It is at: > http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Boot_Images/2.11_on_Simh/ > > It's probably not suitable for a real PDP since it only supports RA/MSCP > and ram disks, and TS tape drives. > > Andru > -- > Andru Luvisi, Programmer/Analyst > > > Quote Of The Moment: > I'm not normal. I know it. I don't care! > - Ace Of Base > From luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu Wed Feb 19 03:57:36 2003 From: luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu (Andru Luvisi) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:57:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test In-Reply-To: <000801c2d76d$e1513d40$eeae580c@who5> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Gregg C Levine wrote: > Hello fron Gregg C Levine > Um no. I was thinking of V7, of the original UNIX. As it happens, I am still > not comfortable with the earlier versions of BSD. So, I am interested in > getting V7, or V6 to work via a networked environment. And yes, I have seen > your file, and the read me for it. I recall V7 had UUCP and that some non-tcp/ip networking implementations existed for it, but I have never heard of a tcp/ip stack for V7. Does such a thing exist? Andru -- Andru Luvisi, Programmer/Analyst Quote Of The Moment: Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. -- Albert Einstein They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- Carl Sagan From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Feb 19 03:59:14 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:59:14 +0100 Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAA2@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> > I recall V7 had UUCP and that some non-tcp/ip networking > implementations existed for it, Yes, various serial-networking based ones (early DECnet, X.25 and PacketNet stuff) and perhaps the multiplexer device stuff. > but I have never heard of a tcp/ip stack for V7. Does > such a thing exist? Nope, didnt fit in the address space. As far as I know, the earliest TCP/IP UNIX for PDP-11 was 2.10/2.11bsd. --f From chpap at ics.forth.gr Wed Feb 19 22:18:44 2003 From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:18:44 +0200 Subject: [pups] (no subject) Message-ID: <00e001c2d811$0c4ad670$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a RQDX1 (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(only for RQDX3) that can be downloaded directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a version of zrqb or something similar? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Sun Feb 23 10:59:54 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:59:54 -0500 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> Message-ID: <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura> I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve my method, let me know. http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP "Teach a man to fish..." -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christos Papachristou" To: Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a RQDX1 > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone version of > zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be downloaded > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a version > of zrqb or something similar? From cmcnabb at vt.edu Sun Feb 23 13:04:45 2003 From: cmcnabb at vt.edu (Christopher McNabb) Date: 22 Feb 2003 22:04:45 -0500 Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05 Message-ID: <1045969485.30181.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> I have a TS05 tape drive and TSV05 controller. The TS11 driver for 211BSD seems to be close to what I need, but not exactly. I can forward, reverse, offline, and run status commands using 'mt', but any attempt to read or write data results in a hard error: ---- # ansitape -t ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310 xs1=20402 xs2=100000 xs3=40 ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310 xs1=20402 xs2=100000 xs3=40 ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=10310 xs1=20402 xs2=100000 xs3=40 unknown record mode (n) - file 7 skipped t - 7: 0 lines (0 chars) in 0 tape blocks ---- This continues ad-nauseum until Ctrl-C is pressed. So, it looks like the TS11 driver is "almost, but not quite" good enough. Before I start attempting to re-invent the wheel, has anyone had success getting a TSV05/TS05 working under 2.11BSD? -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb at vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From shoppa at trailing-edge.com Sun Feb 23 13:42:53 2003 From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 22:42:53 -0500 Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05 In-Reply-To: <1045969485.30181.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> References: <1045969485.30181.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <3E58433D.nail38311SDVN@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> >has anyone had success getting a TSV05/TS05 working under 2.11BSD? The TSV05 is a TS11-emulating interface, like the TU80 and Emulex TC03 and Emulex TC13 (in TS11 mode) and the Dilog DQ132 etc. While I've used 2.11BSD with TU80's and TC03's and TC13's and DQ132's and they all worked, I've never actually used a real TSV05 under 2.11BSD. I'd be inclined to say you've got a hardware problem before blaming the 2.11BSD driver. Can you test your TSV05&TS05 with a different OS? (RT-11, RSX, VMS?) Tim. From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 23 16:22:44 2003 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:22:44 -0500 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP In-Reply-To: <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <000001c2db03$fb0b45c0$b5c3580c@who5> Hello again from Gregg C Levine I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it. However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at Ibiblio, is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error message. That guy has always had problems with his site, which is unfortunate. It hasn't returned. However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've proven. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve > my method, let me know. > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > "Teach a man to fish..." > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christos Papachristou" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? > > > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a RQDX1 > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone version of > > zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be downloaded > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a version > > of zrqb or something similar? > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk Sun Feb 23 20:13:46 2003 From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:13:46 +0000 Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05 In-Reply-To: <1045969485.30181.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> References: <1045969485.30181.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: Er yes, it's one of the most reliable tape drivers and controller mixes that the OS supports. I occasionally have had problems when the drive itself has had a nervous breakdown but apart from that it is very good. Robin In message <1045969485.30181.9.camel at www.4mcnabb.net>, Christopher McNabb writes >I have a TS05 tape drive and TSV05 controller. The TS11 driver for >211BSD seems to be close to what I need, but not exactly. I can >forward, reverse, offline, and run status commands using 'mt', but any >attempt to read or write data results in a hard error: >---- ># ansitape -t >ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310 xs1=20402 >xs2=100000 xs3=40 >ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310 xs1=20402 >xs2=100000 xs3=40 >ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=10310 xs1=20402 >xs2=100000 xs3=40 >unknown record mode (n) - file 7 skipped >t - 7: 0 lines (0 chars) in 0 tape blocks >---- >This continues ad-nauseum until Ctrl-C is pressed. >So, it looks like the TS11 driver is "almost, but not quite" good >enough. Before I start attempting to re-invent the wheel, has anyone >had success getting a TSV05/TS05 working under 2.11BSD? > -- Robin Birch From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Mon Feb 24 03:15:34 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:15:34 -0500 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP References: <000001c2db03$fb0b45c0$b5c3580c@who5> Message-ID: <000001c2db74$36932f20$8a00a8c0@arctura> I fixed the link. E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run it on a machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run XP now, and E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to www.dbit.com to see if there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg C Levine" To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" ; Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > Hello again from Gregg C Levine > I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create > that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it. > However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to > find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at Ibiblio, > is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the > one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available > at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error message. > That guy has always had problems with his site, which is unfortunate. > It hasn't returned. > > However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The > current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux > environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site > here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've proven. > ------------------- > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net > ------------------------------------------------------------ > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] > On > > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM > > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> > XXDP > > > > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a > header > > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has > been a > > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program > that I > > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > > > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can > improve > > my method, let me know. > > > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > > > > "Teach a man to fish..." > > > > -- > > Jonathan Engdahl > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Christos Papachristou" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM > > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? > > > > > > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a > RQDX1 > > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to > installing > > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone > version of > > > zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be > downloaded > > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a > version > > > of zrqb or something similar? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Mon Feb 24 06:31:25 2003 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:31:25 -0500 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP In-Reply-To: <000001c2db74$36932f20$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: Hello again from Gregg C Levine Regarding Dbit, and E-11. The site is back. But you're right. I don't think there's a fix. If there is one, he'll probably deny it. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:16 PM > To: Gregg C Levine; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > > I fixed the link. > > E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run it on a > machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run XP now, and > E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to www.dbit.com to see if > there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone. > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gregg C Levine" > To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" ; > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM > Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > > > > Hello again from Gregg C Levine > > I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create > > that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it. > > However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to > > find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at Ibiblio, > > is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the > > one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available > > at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error message. > > That guy has always had problems with his site, which is unfortunate. > > It hasn't returned. > > > > However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The > > current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux > > environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site > > here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've proven. > > ------------------- > > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] > > On > > > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl > > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM > > > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > > > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> > > XXDP > > > > > > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a > > header > > > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has > > been a > > > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program > > that I > > > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > > > > > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can > > improve > > > my method, let me know. > > > > > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > > > > > > > "Teach a man to fish..." > > > > > > -- > > > Jonathan Engdahl > > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > > > > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > > > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Christos Papachristou" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM > > > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? > > > > > > > > > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a > > RQDX1 > > > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to > > installing > > > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone > > version of > > > > zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be > > downloaded > > > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a > > version > > > > of zrqb or something similar? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PUPS mailing list > > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Mon Feb 24 06:31:25 2003 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:31:25 -0500 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP In-Reply-To: <000001c2db74$36932f20$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <000201c2db7a$8bfcf8a0$58a7580c@who5> Hello again from Gregg C Levine I can't understand it. When I posted the original reply, that site regarding XXDP wasn't up. Now it is. I think this is all because the Winter of 2003, is causing chaos to over work itself. And Jonathan, I know we'll figure something out. This business is fun, so I'm looking at it, as a hobby if nothing else. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:16 PM > To: Gregg C Levine; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > > I fixed the link. > > E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run it on a > machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run XP now, and > E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to www.dbit.com to see if > there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone. > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gregg C Levine" > To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" ; > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM > Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > > > > Hello again from Gregg C Levine > > I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create > > that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it. > > However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to > > find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at Ibiblio, > > is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the > > one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available > > at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error message. > > That guy has always had problems with his site, which is unfortunate. > > It hasn't returned. > > > > However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The > > current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux > > environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site > > here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've proven. > > ------------------- > > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] > > On > > > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl > > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM > > > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > > > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> > > XXDP > > > > > > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a > > header > > > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has > > been a > > > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program > > that I > > > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > > > > > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can > > improve > > > my method, let me know. > > > > > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > > > > > > > "Teach a man to fish..." > > > > > > -- > > > Jonathan Engdahl > > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > > > > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > > > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Christos Papachristou" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM > > > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? > > > > > > > > > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a > > RQDX1 > > > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to > > installing > > > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone > > version of > > > > zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be > > downloaded > > > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a > > version > > > > of zrqb or something similar? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PUPS mailing list > > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From michael_davidson at pacbell.net Mon Feb 24 07:40:40 2003 From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:40:40 -0800 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <3E593FD8.2090207@pacbell.net> Jonathan Engdahl wrote: >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve >my method, let me know. > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header, and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0. While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program loader that understands a.out format, not just something that only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it) This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get you to the restart address. In your example you have: 000020/ 000167 000022/ 145702 If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702 (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first 2 words of the restart code). If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that it isn't) you would want either: 000137 145702 or: 000167 145676 From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Mon Feb 24 08:26:58 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:26:58 +0100 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAF5@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Erzatz-11 V3.1 runs fine on Win2K and XP, please get that from the site. If you cant reach it, contact me offlist and I will send it to you. --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Engdahl [mailto:j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net] > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 6:16 PM > To: Gregg C Levine; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> > XXDP > > > I fixed the link. > > E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have > to run it on a > machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run > XP now, and > E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to > www.dbit.com to see if > there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone. > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gregg C Levine" > To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" ; > > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM > Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format > utility? --> XXDP > > > > Hello again from Gregg C Levine > > I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create > > that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it. > > However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to > > find it. Currently the link which points to the repository > at Ibiblio, > > is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the > > one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available > > at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found > error message. > > That guy has always had problems with his site, which is > unfortunate. > > It hasn't returned. > > > > However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The > > current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux > > environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site > > here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as > I've proven. > > ------------------- > > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) > > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org > [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] > > On > > > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl > > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM > > > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > > > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> > > XXDP > > > > > > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP > and put a > > header > > > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has > > been a > > > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on > the program > > that I > > > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > > > > > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if > someone can > > improve > > > my method, let me know. > > > > > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > > > > > > > "Teach a man to fish..." > > > > > > -- > > > Jonathan Engdahl > > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > > > > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > > > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Christos Papachristou" > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM > > > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? > > > > > > > > > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a > > RQDX1 > > > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to > > installing > > > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone > > version of > > > > zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be > > downloaded > > > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the > RQDX1 , i.e. a > > version > > > > of zrqb or something similar? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PUPS mailing list > > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > From cmcnabb at vt.edu Mon Feb 24 10:41:26 2003 From: cmcnabb at vt.edu (Christopher McNabb) Date: 23 Feb 2003 19:41:26 -0500 Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05 - Boy, Do I feel stupid Message-ID: <1046047286.30181.43.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> On Sat, 2003-02-22 at 22:04, Christopher McNabb wrote: > I have a TS05 tape drive and TSV05 controller. The TS11 driver for > 211BSD seems to be close to what I need, but not exactly. I can > forward, reverse, offline, and run status commands using 'mt', but any > attempt to read or write data results in a hard error: > ---- Well, this problem was fixed by cleaning the heads. In the words of the immortal Homer Simpson, "Doh!" -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb at vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk Mon Feb 24 11:11:41 2003 From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:11:41 +0000 Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05 - Boy, Do I feel stupid In-Reply-To: <1046047286.30181.43.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> References: <1046047286.30181.43.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> Message-ID: <8SwEWPANFXW+EwnH@falstaf.demon.co.uk> Oh well, glad it now works. It's always the simple ones that bite :-) Robin In message <1046047286.30181.43.camel at www.4mcnabb.net>, Christopher McNabb writes >On Sat, 2003-02-22 at 22:04, Christopher McNabb wrote: >> I have a TS05 tape drive and TSV05 controller. The TS11 driver for >> 211BSD seems to be close to what I need, but not exactly. I can >> forward, reverse, offline, and run status commands using 'mt', but any >> attempt to read or write data results in a hard error: >> ---- > > >Well, this problem was fixed by cleaning the heads. In the words of the >immortal Homer Simpson, "Doh!" > -- Robin Birch From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Mon Feb 24 12:41:39 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:41:39 -0500 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura> <3E593FD8.2090207@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <008501c2dbae$42286050$8a00a8c0@arctura> You are right: 000137. The funny thing is, I had it right the first time. I'll go update the web page. On the other header fields, I agree with your idea, but for some reason, I have this vague recollection that there was a reason for what I did with them. It's always a bad idea to second guess something you did a year ago and "fix" it (see the 000137 thing). It's working, so I'd best leave it alone until it's proven to be broken. I think I remember setting it up that way after reading through the source for some boot loader. Hmm, yes, it was the "boot" program. VTserver squirts down a small loader via ODT, which then loads boot.dd. Same as the boot program that the 512 byte rauboot program loads. This one: 73Boot from ra(0,0,0) at 0172150 : ra(0,0,0)unix Boot.dd knows enough to chat with the console so you can tell it what file you want off the virtual tape or hard drive, and it does some decoding of the header, but it's limited. Maybe I should go read that code again. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Davidson" To: "Jonathan Engdahl" Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve > >my method, let me know. > > > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header, > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0. > > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it) > > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get > you to the restart address. > > In your example you have: > > 000020/ 000167 > 000022/ 145702 > > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702 > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first > 2 words of the restart code). > > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that > it isn't) you would want either: > > 000137 > 145702 > > or: > > 000167 > 145676 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Mon Feb 24 14:32:57 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:32:57 -0500 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura> <3E593FD8.2090207@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <00cb01c2dbbd$ce8d64f0$8a00a8c0@arctura> Now that I think of it, > 000137 > 145702 is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in this case it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into memory, it would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to 145722. I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether. Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected. -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Davidson" To: "Jonathan Engdahl" Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve > >my method, let me know. > > > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header, > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0. > > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it) > > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get > you to the restart address. > > In your example you have: > > 000020/ 000167 > 000022/ 145702 > > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702 > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first > 2 words of the restart code). > > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that > it isn't) you would want either: > > 000137 > 145702 > > or: > > 000167 > 145676 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org Mon Feb 24 15:10:25 2003 From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:10:25 +1000 (EST) Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP In-Reply-To: <00cb01c2dbbd$ce8d64f0$8a00a8c0@arctura> from Jonathan Engdahl at "Feb 23, 2003 11:32:57 pm" Message-ID: <200302240510.h1O5AQP56370@minnie.tuhs.org> In article by Jonathan Engdahl: > Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely > twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an > RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected. I'm glad I wrote VTserver, it seems it has more uses than I thought of. I'm out of the development loop for the new VTserver, but hopefully it's progressing along. Warren From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Mon Feb 24 15:40:18 2003 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:40:18 -0500 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP In-Reply-To: <00cb01c2dbbd$ce8d64f0$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <000001c2dbc7$389a3400$0ec6580c@who5> Hello again from Gregg C Levine I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there? And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also, what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't quite remember hearing about. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > > Now that I think of it, > > > 000137 > > 145702 > > is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in this case > it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into memory, it > would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to 145722. > > I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether. > > Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely > twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an > RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected. > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Davidson" > To: "Jonathan Engdahl" > Cc: ; > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > > > > Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > > > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a > header > > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a > > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that > I > > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > > > > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can > improve > > >my method, let me know. > > > > > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > > > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header, > > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably > > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0. > > > > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that > > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that > > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and > > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program > > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that > > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it) > > > > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching > > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get > > you to the restart address. > > > > In your example you have: > > > > 000020/ 000167 > > 000022/ 145702 > > > > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code > > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702 > > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on > > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first > > 2 words of the restart code). > > > > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that > > it isn't) you would want either: > > > > 000137 > > 145702 > > > > or: > > > > 000167 > > 145676 > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net Mon Feb 24 16:34:20 2003 From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:34:20 -0500 Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP References: <000001c2dbc7$389a3400$0ec6580c@who5> Message-ID: <00e501c2dbce$c3f20800$8a00a8c0@arctura> The DSD-4140 (Data Systems Design) is an RX-02 compatible floppy controller. I had a couple, but they're gone. You can find them on the web here and there. I have the manual for it as a directory of .jpg files. I had one that was malfunctioning. It was sort of fun diagnosing it. I found a bad bus buffer and fixed it. I think it's an 18-bit DMA board. Might not work with the 11/53. Wait, though, I have a disk with a special RT-11 driver for it. It puts the DMA buffers in the first 256K, then copies the data if the final destination is higher. I'm not sure if BSD can deal with this issue. I've never had to worry about it. I have all the diags for the 4140 also. DSD was bought by Qualogy, so some of their stuff has that name on it. Arclight (www.arcind.net) shows three in stock. The board number is 804140-1. Second picture down on this page: http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/spare_parts.htm Here's how it boots: http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-06/0032.html -- Jonathan Engdahl http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg C Levine" To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" ; Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:40 AM Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP Hello again from Gregg C Levine I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there? And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also, what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't quite remember hearing about. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > > Now that I think of it, > > > 000137 > > 145702 > > is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in this case > it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into memory, it > would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to 145722. > > I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether. > > Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely > twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an > RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected. > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Davidson" > To: "Jonathan Engdahl" > Cc: ; > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > > > > Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > > > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a > header > > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a > > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that > I > > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > > > > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can > improve > > >my method, let me know. > > > > > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > > > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header, > > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably > > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0. > > > > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that > > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that > > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and > > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program > > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that > > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it) > > > > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching > > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get > > you to the restart address. > > > > In your example you have: > > > > 000020/ 000167 > > 000022/ 145702 > > > > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code > > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702 > > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on > > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first > > 2 words of the restart code). > > > > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that > > it isn't) you would want either: > > > > 000137 > > 145702 > > > > or: > > > > 000167 > > 145676 > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Mon Feb 24 17:24:45 2003 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:24:45 -0500 Subject: DEC Compatible boards was RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP In-Reply-To: <00e501c2dbce$c3f20800$8a00a8c0@arctura> Message-ID: <000101c2dbd5$cf5eaac0$e6c2580c@who5> Hello again from Gregg C Levine Going to the website you suggested www.arcind.net brought up an interesting collection of boards, the ones made by Data Translation: Data Translation: 1 - DT2762-DI 1 - DT2762-SE 1 - DT2762-SE-PG At first glance I believe them to be the usual items that DT was making for DEC systems until whenever they decided to EOL the whole product line. DT, not DEC. Can any of you, ID them? Oh, and Jonathan, I've sent an e-mail off to the company requesting a quote. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -----Original Message----- > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:34 AM > To: Gregg C Levine; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > > The DSD-4140 (Data Systems Design) is an RX-02 compatible floppy controller. > I had a couple, but they're gone. You can find them on the web here and > there. I have the manual for it as a directory of .jpg files. I had one that > was malfunctioning. It was sort of fun diagnosing it. I found a bad bus > buffer and fixed it. > > I think it's an 18-bit DMA board. Might not work with the 11/53. Wait, > though, I have a disk with a special RT-11 driver for it. It puts the DMA > buffers in the first 256K, then copies the data if the final destination is > higher. I'm not sure if BSD can deal with this issue. I've never had to > worry about it. I have all the diags for the 4140 also. > > DSD was bought by Qualogy, so some of their stuff has that name on it. > > Arclight (www.arcind.net) shows three in stock. The board number is > 804140-1. > > Second picture down on this page: > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/spare_parts.htm > > Here's how it boots: > http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-06/0032.html > > -- > Jonathan Engdahl > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gregg C Levine" > To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" ; > Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:40 AM > Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP > > > Hello again from Gregg C Levine > I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there? > And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also, > what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't quite > remember hearing about. > ------------------- > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net > ------------------------------------------------------------ > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] > On > > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl > > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM > > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org > > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> > XXDP > > > > Now that I think of it, > > > > > 000137 > > > 145702 > > > > is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in > this case > > it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into > memory, it > > would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to > 145722. > > > > I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether. > > > > Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely > > twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops > for an > > RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected. > > > > -- > > Jonathan Engdahl > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl > > > > "The things which are seen are temporary, > > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Davidson" > > To: "Jonathan Engdahl" > > Cc: ; > > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM > > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> > XXDP > > > > > > > Jonathan Engdahl wrote: > > > > > > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put > a > > header > > > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It > has been a > > > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the > program that > > I > > > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him. > > > > > > > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone > can > > improve > > > >my method, let me know. > > > > > > > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP > > > > > > > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header, > > > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably > > > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0. > > > > > > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that > > > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that > > > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and > > > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program > > > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that > > > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it) > > > > > > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching > > > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get > > > you to the restart address. > > > > > > In your example you have: > > > > > > 000020/ 000167 > > > 000022/ 145702 > > > > > > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code > > > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702 > > > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on > > > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first > > > 2 words of the restart code). > > > > > > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that > > > it isn't) you would want either: > > > > > > 000137 > > > 145702 > > > > > > or: > > > > > > 000167 > > > 145676 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > PUPS mailing list > > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Sun Feb 23 12:58:57 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: 22 Feb 2003 21:58:57 -0500 Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05 Message-ID: <1045969136.30181.7.camel@www.4mcnabb.net> I have a TS05 tape drive and TSV05 controller. The TS11 driver for 211BSD seems to be close to what I need, but not exactly. I can forward, reverse, offline, and run status commands using 'mt', but any attempt to read or write data results in a hard error: ---- # ansitape -t ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310 xs1=20402 xs2=100000 xs3=40 ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310 xs1=20402 xs2=100000 xs3=40 ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=10310 xs1=20402 xs2=100000 xs3=40 unknown record mode (n) - file 7 skipped t - 7: 0 lines (0 chars) in 0 tape blocks ---- This continues ad-nauseum until Ctrl-C is pressed. So, it looks like the TS11 driver is "almost, but not quite" good enough. Before I start attempting to re-invent the wheel, has anyone had success getting a TSV05/TS05 working under 2.11BSD? -- Christopher L McNabb Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.1356N 80.4272N GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From cmcnabb at vt.edu Wed Feb 26 03:05:14 2003 From: cmcnabb at vt.edu (Christopher McNabb) Date: 25 Feb 2003 12:05:14 -0500 Subject: [pups] Success! Message-ID: <1046192714.2921.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Well, here are the results of my weekends "hacking": --------------------------- $ uname -a 2.11BSD pdp11.4mcnabb.net 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #3: Fri Feb 21 21:00:58 PST 2003 root@:/usr/src/sys/PDP1183 pdp11 $ df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ra0a 10078 3009 7069 30% / /dev/ra0c 10078 2 10076 0% /tmp /dev/ra0d 90718 40963 49755 45% /usr /dev/ra0e 38206 29414 8792 77% /users $ sysctl hw hw.machine = pdp11 hw.model = 83 hw.ncpu = 1 hw.byteorder = 3412 hw.physmem = 2097152 hw.usermem = 0 hw.pagesize = 1024 $ dmesg Feb 25 12:02 ... <5>ra0: Ver 2 mod 3 ra0: RD54 size=311200 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DEQNA addr 08:00:2b:07:b7:53 attaching lo0 phys mem = 2097152 avail mem = 1727488 user mem = 307200 ----------------------------------------------- The machine is an 11/83 with 2 megs of ram, DEQNA, single RD54, TSV05, TK50, and 3 DHV11s. Now it looks like all I have left to do is install 400 odd patches. -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb at vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Wed Feb 26 03:35:15 2003 From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:35:15 -0500 Subject: [pups] Success! In-Reply-To: <1046192714.2921.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from cmcnabb@vt.edu on Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 12:05:14PM -0500 References: <1046192714.2921.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030225123515.A15813@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 12:05:14PM -0500, Christopher McNabb wrote: > Well, here are the results of my weekends "hacking": Looks nice! > /dev/ra0d 90718 40963 49755 45% /usr > /dev/ra0e 38206 29414 8792 77% /users > I kind of wish I had done something like this; instead I ended up taking the SGI route of /usr/people. Oh well. > Now it looks like all I have left to do is install 400 odd patches. > If somebody goes through this pain, any chance of making a new source kit? Though I guess some of the patches are not necessarily desirable in all circumstances... -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Wed Feb 26 06:01:02 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:01:02 +0100 Subject: [pups] Success! Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DB22@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Chris writes: > Well, here are the results of my weekends "hacking": Yay! It lives! Good work, dude! --fred From chpap at ics.forth.gr Wed Feb 26 06:09:48 2003 From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:09:48 +0200 Subject: [pups] DHV11 on BSD2.9 References: <1046192714.2921.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20030225123515.A15813@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <006101c2dd09$d9a26d20$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> I have read in a message by Steve Schultz that there are 2.9BSD drivers for the DHV11-A around. Can I still find them? From sms at 2BSD.COM Wed Feb 26 04:07:55 2003 From: sms at 2BSD.COM (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:07:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] Success! Message-ID: <200302251807.h1PI7tS29457@moe.2bsd.com> > From: David Evans > > Now it looks like all I have left to do is install 400 odd patches. > > If somebody goes through this pain, any chance of making a new source kit? Most of the kits I've seen out there are around #430 or so - that only leaves a dozen or so patches that need to be applied. > Though I guess some of the patches are not necessarily desirable in all > circumstances... By and large they are not only desirable but necessary/mandatory. There are very few 'frivolous' ("gee, this looks like fun") patches in the batch. Trying to "pick and choose" which parts of which patches to apply might be doable in the short term but there _will_ come the day when a bug is encountered or a feature desired that was fixed or added as one of the parts/patches that was left out. Best to get the pain over _once_ and be done with it ;) Cheers, Steven Schultz From sms at 2BSD.COM Wed Feb 26 04:02:24 2003 From: sms at 2BSD.COM (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:02:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] Success! Message-ID: <200302251802.h1PI2O929448@moe.2bsd.com> > From: Christopher McNabb > $ dmesg > > Feb 25 12:02 > ... > <5>ra0: Ver 2 mod 3 > ra0: RD54 size=311200 > attaching qe0 csr 174440 > qe0: DEC DEQNA addr 08:00:2b:07:b7:53 > attaching lo0 > > phys mem = 2097152 > avail mem = 1727488 > user mem = 307200 Congratulations! > Now it looks like all I have left to do is install 400 odd patches. Actually you only need to install the ones _after_ the one listed in /VERSION. Look at the first line of /VERSION, it should look something like this: Current Patch Level: 444 then all you need are the ones between your current version and 444 (which is the latest). Be sure you have the complete system (all the sources, and include files, etc) installed and read/follow the directions (which are quite extensive) included with each patch. SOME patches can be "batched" (if a couple patches in sequence are updating the kernel then you don't need to rebuild the kernel after each patch, etc). Good Luck! Steven Schultz From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org Wed Feb 26 13:45:09 2003 From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:45:09 +1000 (EST) Subject: [pups] DHV11 on BSD2.9 In-Reply-To: <006101c2dd09$d9a26d20$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> from Christos Papachristou at "Feb 25, 2003 10:09:48 pm" Message-ID: <200302260345.h1Q3j9G86503@minnie.tuhs.org> In article by Christos Papachristou: > I have read in a message by Steve Schultz that there are 2.9BSD drivers for > the DHV11-A around. Can I still find them? How about: ./net/sys/dev/dvhp.c in PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9BSD/usr.tar.gz P.S zgrepping lists/full_filelist.gz in the Archive is very useful! Warren From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 26 14:42:05 2003 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:42:05 -0500 Subject: [pups] E-11 and 2.9BSD Message-ID: <000401c2dd51$81b4e280$dbc2580c@who5> Hello from Gregg C Levine Okay, here goes: I have the current version of E-11 booting correctly on my Windows based, (Currently!), backup box. I have booted the 2.9BSD image found in the boot images directory from the FTP server. Does any one have any suggestions as to how to restore an entire system to an E-11 based setup? I have a bunch of empties that were created by John Wilson for his emulator. By the way, Warren your instructions for using the version that's on the FTP server worked with this one. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) From chpap at ics.forth.gr Wed Feb 26 22:25:38 2003 From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:25:38 +0200 Subject: [pups] (no subject) Message-ID: <001c01c2dd92$2c23e9b0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> A few questions from a newbie: I have installed 2.9BSD on a microPDP11/73 with an RD52, using the MSCP version of Jonathan Engdahl. After startup the kernel indicates 160kb of memory .I am not familiar with such an old unix to find out the details but I understand it as 256k minus the kernel. The memory is M8067-LF i.e. 512k Qbus. Does this mean that the system can't see the rest of it and that I have configure/recompile the kernel? The system seems anyway to run fine. I haven't seen an operational PDP with UNIX before this, so I can't judge its speed. When in single user mode it seems to me that it runs "fast". However upon entering multi user mode the speed drops dramaticaly. I have not yet compiled in the 8 port multiplexer (DHV11-A), so only the console is functional and thus no gettys are loaded. So ,why is there such a change in speed? Does the multiuser mode just rise the nice value of the console tasks? Some information on the system. It is a KDJ11-B (M8190 -no suffix) i.e. an 11/84. So, the label on the system says microPDP11/73 (in an BA23 enclosure) the cpu is an 11/84 (if the FPU socket is the DIP-40 slot then it is unused), and the 2.11BSD second stage boot (version from vtserver) I have tried indicates 11/83. The memory is after the CPU and is Qbus (M867-LF). If I have understood what I have read in the list, this must be a mixed system that could use PMI memory, but just uses Qbus?? What exactly is my system? . Moreover the MSCP controller (M8639 YP i.e. RQDX1) the serial port multiplexer(M3104 i.e. DHV11-A) and the memory are Qbus while the cpu board is indicated as Unibus in the field guide. Can these two bus type s be mixed? (If yes , i would be tempted to abuse the dead VAX11/780 in the basement. Can this be done?). Anyway, I thought that the best choice of a UNIX for it since it only has an RD52 woulbe 2.9 BSD with MSCP support. Was this a good guess? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bqt at update.uu.se Wed Feb 26 23:04:39 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:04:39 +0100 (CET) Subject: [pups] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <001c01c2dd92$2c23e9b0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Christos Papachristou wrote: > A few questions from a newbie: > I have installed 2.9BSD on a microPDP11/73 with an RD52, using the MSCP > version of Jonathan Engdahl. After startup the kernel > indicates 160kb of memory .I am not familiar with such an old unix to > find out the details but I understand it as 256k minus the kernel. The memory > is M8067-LF i.e. 512k Qbus. Does this mean that the system can't see the > rest of it and that I have configure/recompile the kernel? > The system seems anyway to run fine. Are you sure it's reporting bytes, and not words? > I haven't seen an operational PDP with UNIX before this, > so I can't judge its speed. When in single user mode it seems to > me that it runs "fast". However upon entering multi user mode the speed > drops dramaticaly. I have not yet compiled in the 8 port multiplexer > (DHV11-A), so only the console is functional and thus no gettys are > loaded. So ,why is there such a change in speed? Does the multiuser mode > just rise the nice value of the console tasks? There shouldn't be a big difference in speed. Are you starting some heavy demons? > Some information on the system. It is a KDJ11-B (M8190 -no suffix) i.e. an > 11/84. So, the label on the system says microPDP11/73 (in an BA23 enclosure) > the cpu is an 11/84 (if the FPU socket is the DIP-40 slot then it is > unused), and the 2.11BSD second stage boot (version from vtserver) I > have tried indicates 11/83. The memory is after the CPU and is Qbus (M867-LF). > If I have understood what I have read in the list, this must be a mixed > system that could use PMI memory, but just uses Qbus?? What exactly is my > system? There exists a specific 11/73 CPU card, but we'll ignore that for now. The 11/73, 11/83 and 11/84 all use the same CPU card. The differences are in other areas, and cannot always easily be detected by software. The difference between an 11/73 and 11/83 is if the system have Qbus memory or PMI memory. The difference between an 11/83 and 11/84 is if the system have the KT84 (or whatever the card is called, my memory fails me at the moment) Unibus map, which is a Q-bus to Unibus converter along with the Unibus map required. The CPU is always on a Qbus, but in the 11/84, nothing but CPU and PMI memory is on this bus. > Moreover the MSCP controller (M8639 YP i.e. RQDX1) > the serial port multiplexer(M3104 i.e. DHV11-A) and the memory are Qbus while > the cpu board is indicated as Unibus in the field guide. Can these two bus type > s be mixed? (If yes , i would be tempted to abuse the dead VAX11/780 in the > basement. Can this be done?). No. As stated above, the CPU card is actually always Qbus. In the 11/84 you have a bus adapter to connect the Unibus. > Anyway, I thought that the best choice of > a UNIX for it since it only has an RD52 woulbe 2.9 BSD with MSCP support. > Was this a good guess? Yes, since you probably don't want to pay a lot of money to Mentec for one of their OSes. 2.11 is much nicer, but you'll want more memory and disk space for that. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Thu Feb 27 01:17:07 2003 From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:17:07 -0500 Subject: [pups] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <001c01c2dd92$2c23e9b0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr>; from chpap@ics.forth.gr on Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 02:25:38PM +0200 References: <001c01c2dd92$2c23e9b0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> Message-ID: <20030226101707.A6899@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 02:25:38PM +0200, Christos Papachristou wrote: > I have not yet compiled in the 8 port multiplexer > (DHV11-A), so only the console is functional and thus no gettys are > loaded. Are you *sure* that there are no gettys? The default install might fire them up anyway, and they will repeatedly die and be restarted. It's been over ten years since I looked at a 2.9BSD system, and that was on a Pro350, so I can't really help much more than that. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual From chpap at ics.forth.gr Thu Feb 27 02:57:55 2003 From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:57:55 +0200 Subject: [pups] (no subject) References: Message-ID: <006901c2ddb8$3599d470$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johnny Billquist" To: "Christos Papachristou" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [pups] (no subject) > On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Christos Papachristou wrote: > > > A few questions from a newbie: > > I have installed 2.9BSD on a microPDP11/73 with an RD52, using the MSCP > > version of Jonathan Engdahl. After startup the kernel > > indicates 160kb of memory .I am not familiar with such an old unix to > > find out the details but I understand it as 256k minus the kernel. The memory > > is M8067-LF i.e. 512k Qbus. Does this mean that the system can't see the > > rest of it and that I have configure/recompile the kernel? > > The system seems anyway to run fine. > > Are you sure it's reporting bytes, and not words? I don't know ,it just says mem=158720 > > > I haven't seen an operational PDP with UNIX before this, > > so I can't judge its speed. When in single user mode it seems to > > me that it runs "fast". However upon entering multi user mode the speed > > drops dramaticaly. I have not yet compiled in the 8 port multiplexer > > (DHV11-A), so only the console is functional and thus no gettys are > > loaded. So ,why is there such a change in speed? Does the multiuser mode > > just rise the nice value of the console tasks? > > There shouldn't be a big difference in speed. Are you starting some heavy > demons? No. It wasn't a problem in speed, the default configuration for getty was wrong (it was configured for LA36 printer output). This is the first time I use a UNIX that was meant for dialups with 110-9600 modems or terminals so please excuse me. But I am learning... By the way the console runs at 38.4kbps , but the gettys are internaly configured at other speeds , the highest being 9.6kbps. Can't I use the full speed of the port? > > Some information on the system. It is a KDJ11-B (M8190 -no suffix) i.e. an > > 11/84. So, the label on the system says microPDP11/73 (in an BA23 enclosure) > > the cpu is an 11/84 (if the FPU socket is the DIP-40 slot then it is > > unused), and the 2.11BSD second stage boot (version from vtserver) I > > have tried indicates 11/83. The memory is after the CPU and is Qbus (M867-LF). > > If I have understood what I have read in the list, this must be a mixed > > system that could use PMI memory, but just uses Qbus?? What exactly is my > > system? > > There exists a specific 11/73 CPU card, but we'll ignore that for now. > The 11/73, 11/83 and 11/84 all use the same CPU card. > The differences are in other areas, and cannot always easily be detected > by software. > The difference between an 11/73 and 11/83 is if the system have Qbus > memory or PMI memory. The difference between an 11/83 and 11/84 is if the > system have the KT84 (or whatever the card is called, my memory fails me > at the moment) Unibus map, which is a Q-bus to Unibus converter along with > the Unibus map required. The CPU is always on a Qbus, but in the 11/84, > nothing but CPU and PMI memory is on this bus. > > > Moreover the MSCP controller (M8639 YP i.e. RQDX1) > > the serial port multiplexer(M3104 i.e. DHV11-A) and the memory are Qbus while > > the cpu board is indicated as Unibus in the field guide. Can these two bus type > > s be mixed? (If yes , i would be tempted to abuse the dead VAX11/780 in the > > basement. Can this be done?). > > No. > As stated above, the CPU card is actually always Qbus. In the 11/84 you > have a bus adapter to connect the Unibus. > > > Anyway, I thought that the best choice of > > a UNIX for it since it only has an RD52 woulbe 2.9 BSD with MSCP support. > > Was this a good guess? > > Yes, since you probably don't want to pay a lot of money to Mentec for one > of their OSes. 2.11 is much nicer, but you'll want more memory and disk > space for that. > > Johnny > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > From chpap at ics.forth.gr Thu Feb 27 02:58:59 2003 From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:58:59 +0200 Subject: [pups] DHV11 on BSD2.9 Message-ID: <007201c2ddb8$5b593890$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> The driver is for a DIVA COMP V controller. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Warren Toomey" > To: "Christos Papachristou" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:45 AM > Subject: Re: [pups] DHV11 on BSD2.9 > > > > In article by Christos Papachristou: > > > I have read in a message by Steve Schultz that there are 2.9BSD drivers > for > > > the DHV11-A around. Can I still find them? > > > > How about: > > > > ./net/sys/dev/dvhp.c in PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9BSD/usr.tar.gz > > > > P.S zgrepping lists/full_filelist.gz in the Archive is very useful! > > > > Warren > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 27 17:46:34 2003 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 02:46:34 -0500 Subject: [pups] CDROM drives and PDP-11s Message-ID: <000301c2de34$5aa19600$1cc5580c@who5> Hello from Gregg C Levine Here's the problem. I have several CDs containing programs, and such like from Tim Shoppa. Two of them say they contain portions which are readable only by a CDROM Drive attached to a PDP-11. One of them is split in half. Half is readable on either of the two computers here, the other half, is in a format that's native to the PDP-11. The other is all in that proprietary format. So, has anyone managed to get them read to their machines? Or failing that to the appropriate simulators, or even emulators? Any suggestions? ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) From bill at cs.scranton.edu Fri Feb 28 01:08:26 2003 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:08:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44 Message-ID: <20030227093041.Y43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu> I am trying to put 2.11 on one of my 11/44's. I picked up the RL02/RK images from the archive. I put the RL02 images on real RL02's (Yes, some of us still have and use them!! :-) My intent was to boot this and then use it to build a system on a bigger disk and then go on from there. Here's my configuration: 11/44 CPU CIS EIS FP11 4M memory (actually 3840KB) MMU 3 RL02 disks A CDU/720-TM SCSI Controller with 4 MAXTOR 340M disks and a QIC tape Now the problem. The system boots fine. And it will mount /dev/rl1a. But it won't mount /dev/rl2a. I get "/dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address". I get the same error when I try to do a disklabel. What's more, I also get this same error when I try to access any of the RA devices. I am using the GENERIC Kernel which I assume has all the devices in it. Anybody have any suggestions?? Of course, if I find that the SCSI Controller isn't going to work I have another controller and a FUJI Eagle I could use too. But I am certain I will need to get all three RL's working in order to have enough of a system to do this. Thanks in advance, bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Fri Feb 28 01:55:12 2003 From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:55:12 -0500 Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: <20030227093041.Y43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu>; from bill@cs.scranton.edu on Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 10:08:26AM -0500 References: <20030227093041.Y43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu> Message-ID: <20030227105512.D28746@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 10:08:26AM -0500, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > A CDU/720-TM SCSI Controller with 4 MAXTOR 340M disks and a QIC tape > You could also stick a bigger disk image (I think I used one for an RA80) on a SCSI disk and go that way. -- David Evans (NeXTMail/MIME OK) dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/ University of Waterloo "Default is the value selected by the composer Ontario, Canada overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl Fri Feb 28 01:57:21 2003 From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:57:21 +0100 Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44 Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DB2E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Bill, kernel probably only supports one unit, _OR_ the filesystem doesnt have all device nodes (/dev/rlXXX). --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill at cs.scranton.edu] > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:08 PM > To: pups at minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44 > > > > I am trying to put 2.11 on one of my 11/44's. I picked up the RL02/RK > images from the archive. I put the RL02 images on real RL02's (Yes, > some of us still have and use them!! :-) My intent was to boot this > and then use it to build a system on a bigger disk and then go on from > there. > > Here's my configuration: > > 11/44 CPU > CIS > EIS > FP11 > 4M memory (actually 3840KB) > MMU > > 3 RL02 disks > A CDU/720-TM SCSI Controller with 4 MAXTOR 340M disks and a QIC tape > > Now the problem. > The system boots fine. And it will mount /dev/rl1a. But it > won't mount > /dev/rl2a. I get "/dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address". > I get the same error when I try to do a disklabel. What's > more, I also > get this same error when I try to access any of the RA devices. I am > using the GENERIC Kernel which I assume has all the devices in it. > > Anybody have any suggestions?? > > Of course, if I find that the SCSI Controller isn't going to work > I have another controller and a FUJI Eagle I could use too. But I > am certain I will need to get all three RL's working in order to > have enough of a system to do this. > > Thanks in advance, > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. > Three wolves > bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > From bill at cs.scranton.edu Fri Feb 28 02:02:05 2003 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:02:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DB2E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <20030227105917.S43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Bill, > > kernel probably only supports one unit, _OR_ the filesystem doesnt > have all device nodes (/dev/rlXXX). Same set of images (and kernel) works fine under SIMH. Mounts 4 RL's without a problem. It is not till I put it on the real PDP that I have the problem. I should also mention it is not hardware as I can shift the Unit Plugs around and the behavior is the same. RL0 and RL1 mount, nothing else is visible. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From bqt at update.uu.se Fri Feb 28 02:28:01 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:28:01 +0100 (CET) Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: <20030227093041.Y43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote: [...] > Now the problem. > The system boots fine. And it will mount /dev/rl1a. But it won't mount > /dev/rl2a. I get "/dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address". > I get the same error when I try to do a disklabel. What's more, I also > get this same error when I try to access any of the RA devices. I am > using the GENERIC Kernel which I assume has all the devices in it. > > Anybody have any suggestions?? What do you see at boot time? Does it show all three RL02s and the mscp-controller along with disks? Second, do you have the entries in /dev? Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From bill at cs.scranton.edu Fri Feb 28 02:42:29 2003 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:42:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030227112931.C43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > [...] > > > Now the problem. > > The system boots fine. And it will mount /dev/rl1a. But it won't mount > > /dev/rl2a. I get "/dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address". > > I get the same error when I try to do a disklabel. What's more, I also > > get this same error when I try to access any of the RA devices. I am > > using the GENERIC Kernel which I assume has all the devices in it. > > > > Anybody have any suggestions?? > > What do you see at boot time? Does it show all three RL02s and the > mscp-controller along with disks? Actually, I am surprised by the lack of information provided. I guess the newer BSD's have spoiled me. :-) ------------------ >>>boot dl0 (Program) 44Boot from rl(0,0,0) at 0174400 : : rl(0,0,0)unix Boot: bootdev=03400 bootcsr=0174400 2.11 BSD UNIX #5: Thu Jan 11 21:32:08 PST 1996 sms1 at sms.sms.iipo.gtegsc.com:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC phys mem = 3932160 avail mem = 3719616 user mem = 307200 February 29 23:09:36 init: configure system rk ? csr 177400 vector 220 skipped: No autoconfig routines. rl 0 csr 174400 vector 160 attached erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # ------------------------ And that's it!! I have commented out the RK entries in /etc/fstab as I certainly don't have any real RK disks. :-) Next, I usually do: --------------- # mount -a /dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address # ------------------- And so it goes. I should probably mention again, these are the 2.11_on_rl02 images from the archive. It consists of 4 RL02's and 6 RK's and it boots and runs fine under SIMH. > > Second, do you have the entries in /dev? > Maybe I'll try running MAKEDEV just to be sure there isn't something corrupted, but being as the boot disk and vol1 both transfered and copyed to real packs OK I have no reason to suspect there is anything wrong with the data on the pack. Hmmmmm... Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I don;t think I will make this assumption. I think I will make a new vol2 pack anyway. But that still leaves why I see no RA's either. Any more suggestions? Is there anyone running a webserver on a PDP-11?? Or will I be the first when I get this going?? I was going to do it with Ultrix-11 but I think it may be easier to get up and definitely more stable on 2.11BSD. Ultrix-11 still needs more work getting it back up to real production quality. (But I plan on doing it!!) All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From bqt at update.uu.se Fri Feb 28 02:59:29 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:59:29 +0100 (CET) Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: <20030227112931.C43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > What do you see at boot time? Does it show all three RL02s and the > > mscp-controller along with disks? > > Actually, I am surprised by the lack of information provided. I guess > the newer BSD's have spoiled me. :-) [stuff deleted...] Hmmm. It's been a while since I ran 2.11, but I'm pretty sure you should see something about the controller at boot. That it attaches, it's csr and what vector it will use. The same way you observe the RL11 controller. Seems like you don't have the controller available from the OS. Have you used the controller anywhere else, so that you know it's functioning, and that the CSR is set right? About the RL drives, I guess we'll just have to assume that you don't have more than two units generated in the system, unless you have some very funny hardware problem. Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From sms at 2BSD.COM Fri Feb 28 03:06:13 2003 From: sms at 2BSD.COM (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:06:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44 Message-ID: <200302271706.h1RH6Du03730@moe.2bsd.com> Hi - > From: Bill Gunshannon > > I am trying to put 2.11 on one of my 11/44's. I picked up the RL02/RK > images from the archive. I put the RL02 images on real RL02's (Yes, > some of us still have and use them!! :-) My intent was to boot this RL drives were reliable (compared to RA81 and RK06/7 drives) if not exactly spacious ;) > 3 RL02 disks > A CDU/720-TM SCSI Controller with 4 MAXTOR 340M disks and a QIC tape > > Now the problem. > The system boots fine. And it will mount /dev/rl1a. But it won't mount > /dev/rl2a. I get "/dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address". What rev of the kernel do you have? First line in /VERSION should have the magic number. > I get the same error when I try to do a disklabel. What's more, I also > get this same error when I try to access any of the RA devices. I am > using the GENERIC Kernel which I assume has all the devices in it. > > Anybody have any suggestions?? What I think is happening is that the system is only configured for 2 RL drives - the change from 2 to 4 happened quite late (patch #439 I think). The RA problem sounds like the MSCP driver either isn't in the kernel or wasn't probed/attached at boot time. You can see if MSCP support's present with something like 'nm -g /unix | grep _raintr" and seeing if you "040364 T _raintr" for the interrupt handler. If you do get that then check /etc/dtab for a line like: ra ? 172150 0 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 The '0' for the vector says for the probe/attach logic to assign a vector and tell the controller what value was used. You could put anything in there (154 or 150 I think is the assigned value for the first MSCP controller). If none of that works then I'm stumped as to why the RA drives can't be accessed. Good Luck. Steven Schultz From iking at killthewabbit.org Fri Feb 28 02:52:54 2003 From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:52:54 -0800 Subject: [pups] CDROM drives and PDP-11s References: <000301c2de34$5aa19600$1cc5580c@who5> Message-ID: <001301c2de80$abf1b5c0$450010ac@dawabbit> John Wilson's PUTR program might be jut the tool - http://www.dbit.com. I'm guessing it might be ODS-2; worst case, I have an InfoServer that can read that, and a TK-50 I could dump it to... :-) -- Ian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg C Levine" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 11:46 PM Subject: [pups] CDROM drives and PDP-11s Hello from Gregg C Levine Here's the problem. I have several CDs containing programs, and such like from Tim Shoppa. Two of them say they contain portions which are readable only by a CDROM Drive attached to a PDP-11. One of them is split in half. Half is readable on either of the two computers here, the other half, is in a format that's native to the PDP-11. The other is all in that proprietary format. So, has anyone managed to get them read to their machines? Or failing that to the appropriate simulators, or even emulators? Any suggestions? ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) _______________________________________________ PUPS mailing list PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups From bill at cs.scranton.edu Fri Feb 28 03:33:25 2003 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:33:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20030227122420.S43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > > On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > > > What do you see at boot time? Does it show all three RL02s and the > > > mscp-controller along with disks? > > > > Actually, I am surprised by the lack of information provided. I guess > > the newer BSD's have spoiled me. :-) > > [stuff deleted...] > > Hmmm. It's been a while since I ran 2.11, but I'm pretty sure you should > see something about the controller at boot. That it attaches, it's csr and > what vector it will use. The same way you observe the RL11 controller. Hmmmm. Curious. I looked at the conf for GENERIC and it had all the disks. Maybe I need to build a kernel under SIMH and then move it over to the real box. Should be a trip, I've never built a kernel under 2.x. Wonder how close it is to todays BSD's where I do it al the time. > > Seems like you don't have the controller available from the OS. > Have you used the controller anywhere else, so that you know it's > functioning, and that the CSR is set right? Yup. Had RSTS on it when I got it and I tried RT-11 from an RL and was able to init Packs, copy files and even boot as a DU. HA LI from the RSTS Startup reports iit's offspring as RA8x disks. > > About the RL drives, I guess we'll just have to assume that you don't have > more than two units generated in the system, The same kernel mounts all 4 RL02's under SIMH. :-( > unless you have some very > funny hardware problem. Maybe I need to crawl in back and check out everything. Could the terminator getting knocked loose cause this?? It's interesting that it isn't a particular drive that doesn't whow up, it is the highest numbered unit. Unless I am looking at this wrong. Do the numbers assigned by the Unit Plug coincide with the dev number or does it just assign devices sequentially for each drive it sees? In other words, if I had a unit with a 0 plug and a 3 plug would that show up as /dev/rl0 and /dev/rl3 or as /dev/rl0 and /dev/rl1? Hope that's understandable.... bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From bill at cs.scranton.edu Fri Feb 28 06:25:35 2003 From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:25:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44 In-Reply-To: <20030227122420.S43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu> Message-ID: <20030227152034.N43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu> Well, the fun continues. I guess it's not going to be as simple as it is with newer BSD's. When I try to build a custom kernel I get this: --------------- # make|more make -f Make.sys I=/usr/include H=../h M=../machine AS="/bin/as -V" CPP="/lib/cpp -P -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h" CFLAGS="-O -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h" ED="/bin/ed" cc -O -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h -S ../sys/init_main.c /bin/ed - < SPLFIX init_main.s /bin/as -V - -o init_main.o init_main.s rm -f init_main.s cc -O -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h -S ../sys/init_sysent.c /bin/ed - < SPLFIX init_sysent.s /bin/as -V - -o init_sysent.o init_sysent.s rm -f init_sysent.s cc -O -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h -S ../sys/kern_acct.c /bin/ed - < SPLFIX kern_acct.s /bin/as -V - -o kern_acct.o kern_acct.s rm -f kern_acct.s cc -O -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h -S ../sys/kern_clock.c /bin/ed - < SPLFIX kern_clock.s ? ? ? ? ? ---------------------- And the "?" go on forever. Can't even break out of it. Have to kill the simulation and start all over. Anybody run into this?? Seems to be in the clock code. Is there something I might have missed in the CONFIG file that could cause this?? All I basicly did was comment out any hardware I was pretty sure wasn't going to show up on my machine. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill at cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 18 06:27:40 2003 From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:27:40 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Test Message-ID: <3E5145BC.A981DD04@worldnet.att.net> Test! Sorry for the disturbance, I have not seen any mail on the list, since sometime in the past. Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net "This signature would rather be out in the snow!" From jss at subatomix.com Tue Feb 18 10:38:17 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:38:17 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] Test In-Reply-To: <3E5145BC.A981DD04@worldnet.att.net> References: <3E5145BC.A981DD04@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <91375728.20030217183817@subatomix.com> On Monday, February 17, 2003, Gregg C Levine wrote: > Sorry for the disturbance, I have not seen any mail on the list, since > sometime in the past. This list is most definitely low-volume. -- Jeffrey Sharp From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org Tue Feb 18 10:52:45 2003 From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:52:45 +1000 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] Waking the List Up Message-ID: <200302180052.h1I0qkC65023@minnie.tuhs.org> I guess it's time to wake the list up. So far the Unix Archive has done well at collecting mostly PDP-11 stuff, but now that were in the next century, we should start working on the 1980s and 1990s. I'd like to call for volunteer curators. Each would look after a subset of the Unix Archive: add files, write README.TXT, rearrange things to be more useful. The Archive has been pretty static for quite some time now, and there are a list of things TODO, and I know some of you have things waiting which I haven't done yet. So perhaps some new blood, will kick things along. Any volunteers? From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca Tue Feb 18 11:26:43 2003 From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:26:43 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Test Message-ID: This list is most definitely low-volume. Speak up, please. We can't hear you up here under the snow. Norman Wilson In a naughtly rosewood igloo somewhere near Toronto, ON From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org Tue Feb 18 13:42:23 2003 From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:42:23 +1000 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] Waking the List Up In-Reply-To: <200302180052.h1I0qkC65023@minnie.tuhs.org> from Warren Toomey at "Feb 18, 2003 10:52:45 am" Message-ID: <200302180342.h1I3gOO66783@minnie.tuhs.org> In article by Warren Toomey: > I'd like to call for volunteer curators. Each would look after a subset > of the Unix Archive: add files, write README.TXT, rearrange things to > be more useful. So far two respondents. I should be a little bit more explicit. I'm after volunteers who will act as points of contact, so that other people can submit new stuff to the archive. The volunteers could also re-organise their subsection, and write some glue documentation so that someone browsing the archive can make sense of it all. So, if you have low bandwidth and/or no new files to contribute, that's fine! Just a desire to help tidy up the existing archive and help integrate any new material. Warren From wgm at telus.net Wed Feb 19 15:31:05 2003 From: wgm at telus.net (Wm. G. McGrath) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:31:05 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history Message-ID: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net> Howdy all, Is it possible that the Unix Archive might be able to get a little funding or assistance from the Library of Congress? This recent story in the Washington Post suggests that there is now a lot of money available in theory at least. I wonder if we would qualify for funding? bill Plan Approved to Save U.S. Digital History - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10278-2003Feb14.html?referrer=email The Library of Congress announced the next step in the effort to preserve that history: congressional approval of its plan for the National Digital Information Infrastructure and Preservation Program. From Robertdkeys at aol.com Wed Feb 19 17:08:09 2003 From: Robertdkeys at aol.com (Robertdkeys at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 02:08:09 EST Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history Message-ID: Wild long shot.... I used to write grants for this kind of thing. Find out more info and point me to where the granting info is and lets make a collective grunt to see if something is possible. Heck, all kinds of funds are available if you submit the right kinds of proposals. Yeah, I know, it is a pipedream, but.....(:+}}... Bob Keys (stirring the history pot, gently.....) From Robertdkeys at aol.com Wed Feb 19 17:41:33 2003 From: Robertdkeys at aol.com (Robertdkeys at aol.com) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 02:41:33 EST Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history Message-ID: <1dd.31bc35f.2b848f2d@aol.com> As I am reading the details of this, it seems that they are at a planning stage, and wanting to coordinate the Library of Congress centrally with other federal and non-federal agencies and organizations to develop the "network" of libraries and repositories for these materials. It was not clear what funding was available to non-federal agencies. My expectation is that the PUPS and TUHS efforts ought to be somewhere in the overall thicket of the Library of Congress effort. We need to find out more about this legislation and potential work and funding. It sounds very interesting... Spinning the ol' propeller-headed beanie at full speed, and thinking out loud.... Bob Keys From grog at lemis.com Wed Feb 19 19:17:21 2003 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:47:21 +1030 Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history In-Reply-To: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net> References: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net> Message-ID: <20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> On Tuesday, 18 February 2003 at 21:31:05 -0800, Wm. G. McGrath wrote: > > Howdy all, > > Is it possible that the Unix Archive might be able to get a > little funding or assistance from the Library of Congress? This > recent story in the Washington Post suggests that there is now a lot > of money available in theory at least. I wonder if we would qualify > for funding? You know that TUHS is based in Australia, right? "Federal" has a different meaning here. Of course, there's a possibility that the Australian government would be interested. I'll investigate. Greg -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Please note: we block mail from major spammers, notably yahoo.com. See http://www.lemis.com/yahoospam.html for further details. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available URL: From iking at windows.microsoft.com Thu Feb 20 01:26:19 2003 From: iking at windows.microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:26:19 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history Message-ID: This sounds similar to some work with which I'm involved at the University of Washington. I'll see what I can learn.... -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Robertdkeys at aol.com [mailto:Robertdkeys at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:42 PM To: wgm at telus.net; tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org Subject: Re: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history As I am reading the details of this, it seems that they are at a planning stage, and wanting to coordinate the Library of Congress centrally with other federal and non-federal agencies and organizations to develop the "network" of libraries and repositories for these materials. It was not clear what funding was available to non-federal agencies. My expectation is that the PUPS and TUHS efforts ought to be somewhere in the overall thicket of the Library of Congress effort. We need to find out more about this legislation and potential work and funding. It sounds very interesting... Spinning the ol' propeller-headed beanie at full speed, and thinking out loud.... Bob Keys _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From iking at windows.microsoft.com Thu Feb 20 01:29:13 2003 From: iking at windows.microsoft.com (Ian King) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:29:13 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history Message-ID: Oops, did that go out in HTML? Sorry, new install of Outlook.... -----Original Message----- From: Ian King Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 7:26 AM To: 'Robertdkeys at aol.com'; wgm at telus.net; tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org Subject: RE: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history This sounds similar to some work with which I'm involved at the University of Washington. I'll see what I can learn.... -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Robertdkeys at aol.com [mailto:Robertdkeys at aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:42 PM To: wgm at telus.net; tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org Subject: Re: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history As I am reading the details of this, it seems that they are at a planning stage, and wanting to coordinate the Library of Congress centrally with other federal and non-federal agencies and organizations to develop the "network" of libraries and repositories for these materials. It was not clear what funding was available to non-federal agencies. My expectation is that the PUPS and TUHS efforts ought to be somewhere in the overall thicket of the Library of Congress effort. We need to find out more about this legislation and potential work and funding. It sounds very interesting... Spinning the ol' propeller-headed beanie at full speed, and thinking out loud.... Bob Keys _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 20 02:56:41 2003 From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:56:41 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Tim Shoppa's V6 distribution Message-ID: <3E53B749.D906A2B6@worldnet.att.net> Hello from Gregg C Levine Has anyone ever gotten Tim Shoppa's V6 distribution to work, under any version of Simh? Theoretically it should be possible, but I haven't a clew, as to how to do so. Any suggestions? I'll leave the networking issues alone for the moment. Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net "This signature owns a house on Belsavis." From jss at subatomix.com Thu Feb 20 03:22:13 2003 From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:22:13 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] HTML Posts (was: LoC now involved...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13262421467.20030219112213@subatomix.com> On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, Ian King wrote: > Oops, did that go out in HTML? Sorry, new install of Outlook.... The list manager (Warren?) can easily protect this and the PUPS list against HTML, attachments, and other email badness by using demime. I use it on the ClassicCmp lists. It basically drops into the aliases file: public-alias: "|/usr/local/bin/demime -8 'private-alias'" Anything goes in, plain text comes out. It's as simple as that. -- Jeffrey Sharp From peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au Thu Feb 20 06:36:09 2003 From: peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 07:36:09 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] random(3) definition Message-ID: <20030219203609.GA85462@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Does anyone here know why the BSD random(3) is defined to return a positive int (31 bits) rather than a full 32 bits of pseudo-entropy? (This came up is a discussion comparing random(3) with arc4random(3) in another list). Peter From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org Thu Feb 20 07:09:19 2003 From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 07:09:19 +1000 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] random(3) definition In-Reply-To: <20030219203609.GA85462@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> from Peter Jeremy at "Feb 20, 2003 07:36:09 am" Message-ID: <200302192109.h1JL9JU91269@minnie.tuhs.org> In article by Peter Jeremy: > Does anyone here know why the BSD random(3) is defined to return a > positive int (31 bits) rather than a full 32 bits of pseudo-entropy? > (This came up is a discussion comparing random(3) with arc4random(3) > in another list). > Peter Maybe it's a C-ism. With a 31-bit shift register, the overflow is going to stay in a 32-bit variable where it can be dealt with in C. If they had used a 32-bit shift register, then grabbing the overflow becomes more difficult. Warren From peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au Thu Feb 20 08:02:28 2003 From: peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:02:28 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history In-Reply-To: <20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net> <20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: <20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> On 2003-Feb-19 19:47:21 +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >You know that TUHS is based in Australia, right? "Federal" has a >different meaning here. Of course, there's a possibility that the >Australian government would be interested. I'll investigate. Not that great a difference. Both Oz and the US have a very similar Federal/state structure. Getting US Federal funding for an Oz site is unlikely (but the LoC is going to need to work out how to handle the fact that the Internet doesn't acknowledge national boundaries and some of the information it needs to archive won't be in the US). Peter From wgm at telus.net Thu Feb 20 22:25:44 2003 From: wgm at telus.net (Wm. G. McGrath) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 04:25:44 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history In-Reply-To: <20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> References: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net> <20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Message-ID: <20030220042544.34ba2783.wgm@telus.net> On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:02:28 +1100 Peter Jeremy wrote: >Not that great a difference. Both Oz and the US have a very >similar Federal/state structure. Getting US Federal funding for an >Oz site is unlikely (but the LoC is going to need to work out how >to handle the fact that the Internet doesn't acknowledge national >boundaries and some of the information it needs to archive won't be >in the US). Yup. There are lots of issues here. The story made it to /. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/16/2322243&mode=thread&tid=99 and things like media longevity, data formats, and future availability came up in the comments section. I believe we need to somehow provide the future with the benefit of our intelligence and experience as well as with information. And TUHS can be of help there. Besides, a great deal of Unix history (not all of it be any means) was created in the US: Bell Labs, Digital, Sun, IBM, SCO, Xenix, etc. So there is clearly a US 'interest'. I guess the question may be whether the Library is going to archive systems or restrict itself to content, ie web pages. bill From Robertdkeys at aol.com Fri Feb 21 03:24:09 2003 From: Robertdkeys at aol.com (Robertdkeys at aol.com) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:24:09 EST Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history Message-ID: <67.a912c89.2b866939@aol.com> Maybe it might be played from the angle that a US mirror could be granted funds in some manner, to complement the down under repository. Just a wild thought... Bob Keys From grog at lemis.com Tue Feb 25 10:03:38 2003 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:33:38 +1030 Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history In-Reply-To: <20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> References: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net> <20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> Message-ID: <20030225000338.GA2042@wantadilla.lemis.com> On Thursday, 20 February 2003 at 9:02:28 +1100, Peter Jeremy wrote: > On 2003-Feb-19 19:47:21 +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: >> You know that TUHS is based in Australia, right? "Federal" has a >> different meaning here. Of course, there's a possibility that the >> Australian government would be interested. I'll investigate. > > Not that great a difference. Both Oz and the US have a very similar > Federal/state structure. Getting US Federal funding for an Oz site > is unlikely (but the LoC is going to need to work out how to handle > the fact that the Internet doesn't acknowledge national boundaries > and some of the information it needs to archive won't be in the US). Sorry, I wasn't clear. In America, "Federal" refers to the American federal government. Here it refers to the Australian federal government. Thus, the funds that the original poster mentioned would probably not be available. Greg -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Please note: we block mail from major spammers, notably yahoo.com. See http://www.lemis.com/yahoospam.html for further details. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 187 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tfb at tfeb.org Wed Feb 26 02:13:25 2003 From: tfb at tfeb.org (Tim Bradshaw) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:13:25 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Festoon Message-ID: <15963.38437.680360.557601@tfeb.org> Does anyone remember this program (probably /usr/games/festoon) and in which Unixes it was distributed? I think it must have existed in at least some BSDs, but I'm fairly sure it wasn't in the ordinary 4.3 distribution. --tim From wgm at telus.net Wed Feb 26 02:05:13 2003 From: wgm at telus.net (Wm. G. McGrath) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:05:13 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history In-Reply-To: <20030225000338.GA2042@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net> <20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> <20030225000338.GA2042@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: <20030225080513.5b176bfe.wgm@telus.net> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:33:38 +1030 "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" wrote: >Sorry, I wasn't clear. In America, "Federal" refers to the >American federal government. Here it refers to the Australian >federal government. Thus, the funds that the original poster >mentioned would probably not be available. Clear enough. As a Canadian I'm certainly aware of the difference between federal and regional goverments. AFAIK though Digital was a Massachusetts company and thus the LoC has an interest in it's activities - along with the rest of the American computer industry. It's only logical that they'd have an interest in TUHS archives. It would be a shame to see TUHS loose out because of a silly turf war. Regardless of where the archive site hardware is located, the information in TUHS archives is clearly American. If you are interested in the preservation of Unix heritage I really can't see the point of nationalistic hostility, refusing to cooperate, or at least of trying. The LoC is certainly one of the best data repositories on the planet, and a great way of ensuring that knowledge about Unix is available to future generations. In my view results will probably depend more upon how things are approached rather then what country the server is located in. One thing is perfectly clear. Digital heritage has become very important. bill http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/ndiipp/repor/repor_plan.html http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2003/03-022.html http://www.loc.gov/ From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 26 03:51:31 2003 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:51:31 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history In-Reply-To: <20030225080513.5b176bfe.wgm@telus.net> Message-ID: <000001c2dcf6$8f957f00$7ec7580c@who5> Hello from Gregg C Levine Same here. But as an American I am fully aware of the differences on all three levels. State, Federal, and City. And why they do, or don't work. I did succeed in figuring out what our friend in Oz was talking about. And I am pleased that the LoC is getting involved. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) > -----Original Message----- > From: tuhs-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-admin at minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Wm. G. McGrath > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:05 AM > To: tuhs > Subject: Re: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history > > On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:33:38 +1030 > "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" wrote: > > >Sorry, I wasn't clear. In America, "Federal" refers to the > >American federal government. Here it refers to the Australian > >federal government. Thus, the funds that the original poster > >mentioned would probably not be available. > > Clear enough. As a Canadian I'm certainly aware of the difference > between federal and regional goverments. AFAIK though Digital was a > Massachusetts company and thus the LoC has an interest in it's > activities - along with the rest of the American computer industry. > It's only logical that they'd have an interest in TUHS archives. It > would be a shame to see TUHS loose out because of a silly turf war. > Regardless of where the archive site hardware is located, the > information in TUHS archives is clearly American. If you are > interested in the preservation of Unix heritage I really can't see > the point of nationalistic hostility, refusing to cooperate, or at > least of trying. The LoC is certainly one of the best data > repositories on the planet, and a great way of ensuring that > knowledge about Unix is available to future generations. In my view > results will probably depend more upon how things are approached > rather then what country the server is located in. One thing is > perfectly clear. Digital heritage has become very important. > > bill > > http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/ndiipp/repor/repor_plan.html > http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2003/03-022.html > http://www.loc.gov/ > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs From shoppa at trailing-edge.com Wed Feb 26 08:52:35 2003 From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:52:35 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Festoon In-Reply-To: <15963.38437.680360.557601@tfeb.org> References: <15963.38437.680360.557601@tfeb.org> Message-ID: <3E5BF3B3.nailO3X1PA3FG@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> >Does anyone remember this program (probably /usr/games/festoon) It's come up at least twice on alt.folklore.computers in the last decade, but I've never seen a pointer to the actual source yet. e.g. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=391cb661%40news.adfa.oz.au&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dfestoon%2Balt.folklore.computers%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch Tim. From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca Wed Feb 26 11:00:51 2003 From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:00:51 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Festoon Message-ID: <200302260101.h1Q11Qn84655@minnie.tuhs.org> Ron Hardin, who worked at Western Electric in Columbus (I think) at the time, confirms that he is the author: Festoon was mine, chiefly written one Saturday with a tragically flawed copy of Lester's _Introductory Transformational Grammar of English_ bought that morning on a $1 table at Woolworth on my knee. The tragic flaw was that there are severe lexical constraints on language, which is why there are so many made-up words in festoon, to avoid them. The introduction of awful phrases came in reaction to writer's workbench from Lorinda Cherry, which had a real mine of them; and phrases from my boss, S D Hester, who was a wretched writer. People contributed on noticing that. It was greatly helped by troff (``The _pay_ people to write this crap?'' is a typical reaction. Apparently it was not out of the question for Western Electric.) Norman Wilson Toronto ON On the internet, nobody can tell you're whether you're on the internet. From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org Wed Feb 26 13:40:15 2003 From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:40:15 +1000 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] Festoon In-Reply-To: <3E5BF3B3.nailO3X1PA3FG@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> from Tim Shoppa at "Feb 25, 2003 05:52:35 pm" Message-ID: <200302260340.h1Q3eFY86417@minnie.tuhs.org> In article by Tim Shoppa: > >Does anyone remember this program (probably /usr/games/festoon) > > It's come up at least twice on alt.folklore.computers in the last decade, > but I've never seen a pointer to the actual source yet. % tar vtzf PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9BSD/usr.tar.gz | grep -i fest -rwxrwxr-x 3/3 37484 Nov 17 13:00 1982 ./games/festoon -rw-rw-rw- 1/1 3536 Aug 2 23:08 1983 ./man/cat6/festoon.6 -rw-r--r-- 3/3 3012 Aug 2 21:26 1983 ./man/man6/festoon.6 % tar vtzf Applications/Shoppa_Tapes/usenix878889.tar.gz | grep -i festoon drwxr-xr-x 100/10 0 Mar 29 06:53 1989 usenix89/:Bugs/Festoon/ drwxr-xr-x 100/10 0 Mar 29 06:53 1989 usenix89/:Bugs/Festoon/:BUGS/ -r--r--r-- 100/10 2975 Jul 2 02:48 1987 usenix89/:Bugs/Festoon/:BUGS/1 That's all I can find in the Unix Archive at present. Warren P.S ./games/festoon is an 0407 binary. No source. From dmr at plan9.bell-labs.com Wed Feb 26 15:46:31 2003 From: dmr at plan9.bell-labs.com (Dennis Ritchie) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:46:31 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Festoon Message-ID: <73468058224c3fd7d82f1bb84521dbb9@plan9.bell-labs.com> I have the version of festoon, as enhanced by Nils-Peter Nelson, and as Norman Wilson said, mainly and originally done by Ron Hardin. When the Usenet interchange referred to happened, I asked Ron whether he wanted to release it, and the response was > fine with me > npn's version is at /home/rhh/coma/festoon/fest.c > with pics and tbls > i've lost the original Incidentally, Hardin worked for Bell Labs, though at the Columbus location also occupied by Western Electric, and until fairly recently was a consultant for our own and nearby groups. The first Google pages for "hardin sloane" yields a bunch of references to his joint work with the well-known mathematician N. J. A. Sloane. Binary, but not source, was with research 8th edition, and may have escaped otherwise. I'll make the source available to scholars if there's interest. It even compiles on Plan 9 (with ape). Dennis From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 27 06:50:06 2003 From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:50:06 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Status of, and licensing of the so called "Ancient UNIX" products Message-ID: <002401c2ddd8$af4e1680$38c5580c@who5> Hello again from Gregg C Levine I know I asked this question early on, and I remember, and have the original answer filed someplace.... But that was about a year ago. Since then I had heard a rumor that the current Copyright Owner of the "Ancient UNIX" products had in fact re-released the products under the exact same license that both Minix, and BSD use. In fact they could called a freely releasable product. Can someone on this list confirm this? On a different list, for a different emulator, to which that I belong, we there, are having a discussion regarding the status of these products. I agreed with a correspondent that the BSD ones, such as 2.11, and 2.9 were in fact freely available, pending a response that is. I am suggesting there, that someone should investigate porting either V5, or V6, or even V7 to that platform. And someone naturally is making that complaint. Someone else is also claiming that Amdahl did just that, and sold it under the name UTS. But as you might guess, it is not freely available. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi ) (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda ) From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org Thu Feb 27 07:49:58 2003 From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 07:49:58 +1000 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Package Design (fwd) Message-ID: <200302262149.h1QLnwb98263@minnie.tuhs.org> ----- Forwarded message from Lange, David ----- From: "Lange, David" Subject: AT&T Package Design Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:25:18 -0500 Just wondering who actually designed the AT&T UNIX package utility. I have to admit the documentation of this utility is rather sparse in term of examples of scripting problems and handling the I/O. Did internal AT&T documentation have any more information or did it merely consist of the source? I'm interested in creating patches and dependencies between packages. Any information or insight would be welcome. Regards. D. Lange ----- End of forwarded message from Lange, David ----- From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org Thu Feb 27 07:58:17 2003 From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 07:58:17 +1000 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] Festoon In-Reply-To: <73468058224c3fd7d82f1bb84521dbb9@plan9.bell-labs.com> from Dennis Ritchie at "Feb 26, 2003 00:46:31 am" Message-ID: <200302262158.h1QLwHu98408@minnie.tuhs.org> In article by Dennis Ritchie: > I'll make the Festoon source available to scholars if there's interest. > It even compiles on Plan 9 (with ape). > Dennis Dennis has passed the source to me with permission to include it in the Unix Archive. It's now there at Applications/Festoon, e.g http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Applications/Festoon/ until the other mirrors pick it up. Warren From grog at lemis.com Thu Feb 27 08:44:58 2003 From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:14:58 +1030 Subject: [TUHS] Status of, and licensing of the so called "Ancient UNIX" products In-Reply-To: <002401c2ddd8$af4e1680$38c5580c@who5> References: <002401c2ddd8$af4e1680$38c5580c@who5> Message-ID: <20030226224458.GN66520@wantadilla.lemis.com> On Wednesday, 26 February 2003 at 15:50:06 -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote: > Hello again from Gregg C Levine > I know I asked this question early on, and I remember, and have the > original answer filed someplace.... But that was about a year ago. > Since then I had heard a rumor that the current Copyright Owner of the > "Ancient UNIX" products had in fact re-released the products under the > exact same license that both Minix, and BSD use. That's not possible. The licenses aren't the same. > In fact they could called a freely releasable product. Can someone > on this list confirm this? Yes. It went around on this list at the time. I'll attach the message again below. Greg -- Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Please note: we block mail from major spammers, notably yahoo.com. See http://www.lemis.com/yahoospam.html for further details. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 100 URL: From arnold at skeeve.com Thu Feb 27 22:06:17 2003 From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:06:17 +0200 Subject: [TUHS] compiling festoon Message-ID: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain> Hi All. The following diff is necessary to use GCC on a linux system. (Anyone know what gcc's builtin `conj' function is? Beats me.) Warren, you might want to fix that last line in the archive version of the file. Arnold ---------------- *** fest.c.dist Wed Feb 26 23:51:49 2003 --- fest.c Thu Feb 27 14:02:55 2003 *************** *** 1223,1229 **** static char *conjlist[] = {"and", "but", "yet", "and", "and"}; X ! conj(env) E env; { X v = getxx(); --- 1223,1229 ---- static char *conjlist[] = {"and", "but", "yet", "and", "and"}; X ! conjugate(env) E env; { X v = getxx(); *************** *** 1306,1312 **** } else if (prob(2 * T)) { v->list.x[i++] = turgid(env); v->list.x[i++] = comma(env); ! v->list.x[i++] = conj(env); v->list.x[i++] = sent(env); } else if (prob(1.5 * T)) { v->list.x[i++] = lconjsub(env); --- 1306,1312 ---- } else if (prob(2 * T)) { v->list.x[i++] = turgid(env); v->list.x[i++] = comma(env); ! v->list.x[i++] = conjugate(env); v->list.x[i++] = sent(env); } else if (prob(1.5 * T)) { v->list.x[i++] = lconjsub(env); *************** *** 1327,1333 **** if (eqn && prob(.5)) { v->list.x[i++] = equation(env); v->list.x[i++] = comma(env); ! v->list.x[i++] = conj(env); } v->list.x[i++] = sent(env); } else --- 1327,1333 ---- if (eqn && prob(.5)) { v->list.x[i++] = equation(env); v->list.x[i++] = comma(env); ! v->list.x[i++] = conjugate(env); } v->list.x[i++] = sent(env); } else *************** *** 1644,1647 **** label[j++] = '"'; label[j] = '\0'; return(label); } - /GO.SYSIN DD fest.c \ No newline at end of file --- 1644,1646 ---- From lars at nocrew.org Thu Feb 27 22:39:05 2003 From: lars at nocrew.org (Lars Brinkhoff) Date: 27 Feb 2003 13:39:05 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] compiling festoon In-Reply-To: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain> References: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <8565r5dhjq.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> Aharon Robbins writes: > Anyone know what gcc's builtin `conj' function is? C99 complex conjugation. -- Lars Brinkhoff, Services for Unix, Linux, GCC, PDP-10, HTTP Brinkhoff Consulting http://www.brinkhoff.se/ From wtoomey at staff.bond.edu.au Fri Feb 28 13:58:38 2003 From: wtoomey at staff.bond.edu.au (wtoomey at staff.bond.edu.au) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:58:38 +1000 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] Re: Fw: A milestone from Australian computing history In-Reply-To: <01ea01c2ded9$bc807580$bdc38490@nsw.bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <0HB0004OH31TMZ@staff.bond.edu.au> In article by Max Burnet: > From: Bob Supnik > To: Max Burnet > > I've just finished resurrecting Richard Miller's Wollongong port of UNIX > V6 > > to the Interdata 7/32 (1976-77) - the first UNIX port in history. I hope > > to release a kit over the weekend. > > > > If you have Warren Toomey's mail address, over at PUPS, will you please > > forward this on to him as well? > > > > All the best to you and yours, > > > > /Bob Congratulations Bob!! Warren From peterjeremy at optushome.com.au Fri Feb 28 20:46:57 2003 From: peterjeremy at optushome.com.au (Peter Jeremy) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:46:57 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] compiling festoon In-Reply-To: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain> References: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20030228104657.GK53497@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au> On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 02:06:17PM +0200, Aharon Robbins wrote: >The following diff is necessary to use GCC on a linux system. >(Anyone know what gcc's builtin `conj' function is? Beats me.) Probably complex conjugate: conj(a+ib) == a-ib Peter From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org Fri Feb 28 09:22:49 2003 From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:22:49 +1000 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] compiling festoon In-Reply-To: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain> from Aharon Robbins at "Feb 27, 2003 02:06:17 pm" Message-ID: <200302272322.h1RNMop13970@minnie.tuhs.org> In article by Aharon Robbins: > Hi All. > > The following diff is necessary to use GCC on a linux system. > (Anyone know what gcc's builtin `conj' function is? Beats me.) > > Warren, you might want to fix that last line in the archive version > of the file. Um, it compiles fine for me on FreeBSD using gcc version 2.95.3, so I'd say that it's a Linux library. I'll put your suggestion into the README. Warren